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Dangers of welding wheels.

Randy88

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Feb 2, 2009
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iowa
Not sure if I caused the stir or not I reread my post and didn't want anyone to take it the wrong way, first I was asking if its better to toss water or snow on a rim or hub to see if it sizzles or makes noise before checking for a hot wheel bearing or pounding on a tire checking for flats instead of just walking up to the hub and putting your hand on it to see if its normal, warmer than normal or hot to the touch and there's a problem, second at what temp does a hub get to start the reaction in the first place, a wheel bearing going out or a dragging brake will set it off but at what temp, if the hub or brake drum is at normal operating temp that shouldn't do it, but how much hotter does it need to be, water sizzle on the hub?, slightly before? need smoking brakes? or the sound of sizzling grease?

Most everyone has worked around hot brakes at one time or another, you pull some steep hills and you finally get to where your going and need to unload, the first thing I usually do is to see if any brake got hot or you've got flat tires or low tires, most of my trailers are lowboys and the tires are fully exposed so you do the walk around and check as you take chains and binders off and get unloaded. The initial question I had was is it better to toss some snow on or water on from a distance first before ever getting near the tire and hub when you don't hear any sizzling grease or smell anything hot or just do the normal walk around and touch the hubs and pound on the tires to check for flats? Do you need to hear or smell something for the reaction to start or at that point is it already too late? I thought the temp gun was a great suggestion now at what temp is it safe to walk up to them and do the normal walk around and work around them?
 

rare ss

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Apr 1, 2011
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Western Australia
there was in incident over here with a L1850 LeTourneau popped a tyre in the workshop with 3 boilermarkers welding the on the boom.. was a weriod failure was like it was a weakness in the sidewall and blew a 2" x 2" hole
apart from their hearing the guys where ok
 

stock

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We have moved on and now were lost....
I have 17 years in the wheel industry and have been involved in more investigations than I can ever remember, the most common factor in most cases is lack of training or inexperience with wheels and tires. If you are unsure don't do it.

Also its not just welding, any heat source can trigger this. I have some brutal pictures of two unfortunate men who heated some lug nuts to remove them, the heat transferred through the wheel steel and they didn't live to tell the tale.


I have Michelin videos of tires blowing up and throwing a crash test dummy through the air, but they are to large a file size to upload here. One of them has a remote camera inside the tire showing the reaction start.


Are these videos hosted elsewhere? if so maybe you can post a link for us.............................
 

LuNaTIcFrEAk

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Jun 26, 2007
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Location
Canada
Are these videos hosted elsewhere? if so maybe you can post a link for us.............................

No, I got them on a flash drive from a training course I took down at the Michelin training center. I will upload them to rapidshare sometime this week.
 

tireman

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Apr 19, 2011
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Location
St.Louis,Mo.
No,there is no sustained fire to generate the heat-although it is strongly recommended against doing this.There are many,many other ways to get a tire to take air(blast of air,pack the beads with soap,etc.).All it it takes is a little too much starting fluid,and you've got an explosion.
 

oldtanker

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vining mn
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Ret
Interestingly enough a non mechanical friend moved into a new home a couple of weeks ago. He calls me up and tells me he has a trailer tire with a broken bead and wants to know about using starting fluid to seat it. So I drove over to see what he had going on thinking it was on his single axle trailer. Well it kinda was.....single axle lawn cart! I tipped it on it's side......removed the cotter pin and slid the wheel off and we drove into the local repair shop who seated the tire for him at no charge! His very lame excuse was "I didn't know how easy it was to take that off"......cause he didn't look! It isn't the tires that are dangerous......it's the people working around them!

Rick
 

tireman

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St.Louis,Mo.
Oh yes they are dangerous.ANYTHING pressurized is dangerous.But you are correct that it's the human factor that determines the final outcome indeed.Ignorance is a useless excuse after the fact-providing that there is a survivor.
 

OFF

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Alberta, Canada
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HD Mechanic
We had a local tire shop death on the weekend - welding on a wheel. Bump for all those who haven't watched the video in the first post yet.
 

JDOFMEMI

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Jan 3, 2007
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Location
SoCal
Why not just dismount the tire?

Well, that would be the proper way, but some peple are always in too big of a hurry to spend the extra time it takes to do it right. Unfortunately, some like the above tire man will never get the chance to do it over the right way.
 

Nick L

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Apr 4, 2012
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WV
I think the cause of the explosion has nothing to do with the tire at all. I am pretty sure that it it caused by the transfer of heat from the rim to the air that inside of a preassurre vessile. In this case the tire that is on the rim is the weakest link in the preasure vessile and that is what fails first.
 

Nige

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G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
If you listen to the soundtrack on the video the Bridgestone guy explains it. The root cause is a chemical reaction called pyrolisis caused initially by the transfer of heat from welding the rim to the tyre in the first instance. However even if you take away the source of heat the reaction continues and it's the heat generated by that reaction that causes the pressure to rocket up and finally the tyre to explode. So the process is more complicated than you think.

The problem is that even removing the valve stem is not guaranteed to allow the air to exit fast enough, because the rapid rise in pressure cannot be relieved just through the small diameter of a valve stem, so the tyre may still explode.
 
Last edited:

alexllever

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May 21, 2012
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Location
USA
Thanks for sharing the video.

Call me too safety conscious if you like but I would completely remove the tire when I weld. Yes the explosion is dangerous but so is a fire. Rubber burns like crazy once you get it started.

Scott
Welders360

yes it's true, rubber burning can kill u in very short time.
thx for the life saving share.
 

daterplant

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www.cnplus.co.uk/...dyggor-gaylord...tyre-explosion/1677866.articl...
This is the result of heat transfer to a DEFLETED tyre.

Until I read this thread I thought a deflated tyre was safe, which got me thinking of an accident some years ago at Dyggor gaylord in the UK
I use to work for that company and thought the tyre which exploded was inflated.
However, after looking at the report I now know it was deflated.
Thanks for starting this thread it has made me look at the safety of working around tyres in a whole different way.
 

DirtHauler

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www.cnplus.co.uk/...dyggor-gaylord...tyre-explosion/1677866.articl...
This is the result of heat transfer to a DEFLETED tyre.

Until I read this thread I thought a deflated tyre was safe, which got me thinking of an accident some years ago at Dyggor gaylord in the UK
I use to work for that company and thought the tyre which exploded was inflated.
However, after looking at the report I now know it was deflated.
Thanks for starting this thread it has made me look at the safety of working around tyres in a whole different way.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...pot/1691691.article+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us correct link



Here is an other video that shows what happened less than 2 mins after a weld was made on a wheel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZuBj_KW84E
 
Last edited:

stock

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Eire
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We have moved on and now were lost....
www.cnplus.co.uk/...dyggor-gaylord...tyre-explosion/1677866.articl...
This is the result of heat transfer to a DEFLETED tyre.

Until I read this thread I thought a deflated tyre was safe, which got me thinking of an accident some years ago at Dyggor gaylord in the UK
I use to work for that company and thought the tyre which exploded was inflated.
However, after looking at the report I now know it was deflated.
Thanks for starting this thread it has made me look at the safety of working around tyres in a whole different way.
06Apr90 UK: SAFETY EXPERTS SEEK SOLUTION TO EXPLOSION AT DYGGOR GAYLORD DEPOT.
5 April, 1990 | By CNPLUS

Safety experts are blowing up tyres to try to find out how three fitters died during an explosion at a plant hire firm in Nottingham last week. Health and Safety Executive scientists are carrying out controlled explosions on 2.5 m tyres similar to the one that blew up and killed three men at Dyggor Gaylord's depot.An inquest into the deaths was adjourned last week pending results of the scientists work.An HSE spokesman said: 'The research and laboratory divisions have been called in. They have collected debris and are doing forensic tests and setting up controlled explosions.'We are doing what we can to ascertain exactly what happened. The job is made difficult because all the immediate witnesses are dead.'Three men were working on the brakes of a Caterpillar 631 scraper with oxyacetelene welding equipment when the huge tyre blew up in their faces.Fitter Gordon Bradley, 39 and welder Colin Keightley, 30 died instantly from multiple injuries.Fitter Patrick Richardson, 22, died later in Nottingham's Queen's Medical Centre.A one-tonne brake drum was blown 10m by the force of the explosion.John Clarke, who saw the explosion, told the Nottingham Evening Post: 'There was a very loud bang - I turned and saw a cloud of thick black smoke.'It's a terrible shock, everyone is very subdued. It hasn't sunk in yet.'The resumed inquests will be heard before a jury because the men died on industrial premises.Guidance on working with high pressure pneumatic tyres is expected from the HSE once the results of the inquest are known.Dyggor Gaylord is a subsidiary of CP Holdings.
 

CAT303 SR

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May 28, 2012
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Thailand
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Offshore oil industry - Australia
Work safe - think about what your doing - take the extra few minutes the down side of death; injury & equipment damage is a far more expensive in the long run

Spread the word - Well done
 
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