Muddy Komatsu dumper

[willie59]

Well special tool, I gotta hand it to ya, your the first I've seen that drew a comparison of work between a crawler dumper and a track loader.

And your point of using a track loader to do the same work, hauling material, may very well be more practical as well as cost effective in certain situations and payloads. Yes, these machines are a small payload for a reason, to do small tasks that don't require something the size of an artic truck. And particularly with the CD60R, it is a special application machine for sure. But for hauling heavy payload, the track loader won't compare to probably the most popular crawler dumpers, those being the Morooka MST-1500 with a payload of 13,000 lb moving at 7.5 mph and the MST-2200 with a payload of 22,000 lbs moving at 9 mph. Plus, the 2200 loaded only has a ground pressure of 5.7 psi with a 2 1/2 ft wide track, which allows them to go places machines like an artic truck or conventional dump trucks won't go.

We sold an MST-600, which is just 6,600 lb payload, to an outfit north of us that manages 72,000 acres of mountain land designated for off road recreational vehicles, trails out the wazoo. They use this machine, along with dozer, Bobcat, and excavator to maintain the trails and keep the land in EPA erosion compliance. They take that little Morooka through some goat trails to haul dirt, stone, and occasionally fill the bed with bales of hay with a hydroseeder hitched behind it to blow seed. Be kinda hard for a track loader to do what they ask their toy to do. I guess it comes down to all machines have their place. :cool2

 

[special tool]

Well special tool, I gotta hand it to ya, your the first I've seen that drew a comparison of work between a crawler dumper and a track loader.

And your point of using a track loader to do the same work, hauling material, may very well be more practical as well as cost effective in certain situations and payloads. Yes, these machines are a small payload for a reason, to do small tasks that don't require something the size of an artic truck. And particularly with the CD60R, it is a special application machine for sure. But for hauling heavy payload, the track loader won't compare to probably the most popular crawler dumpers, those being the Morooka MST-1500 with a payload of 13,000 lb moving at 7.5 mph and the MST-2200 with a payload of 22,000 lbs moving at 9 mph. Plus, the 2200 loaded only has a ground pressure of 5.7 psi with a 2 1/2 ft wide track, which allows them to go places machines like an artic truck or conventional dump trucks won't go.

We sold an MST-600, which is just 6,600 lb payload, to an outfit north of us that manages 72,000 acres of mountain land designated for off road recreational vehicles, trails out the wazoo. They use this machine, along with dozer, Bobcat, and excavator to maintain the trails and keep the land in EPA erosion compliance. They take that little Morooka through some goat trails to haul dirt, stone, and occasionally fill the bed with bales of hay with a hydroseeder hitched behind it to blow seed. Be kinda hard for a track loader to do what they ask their toy to do. I guess it comes down to all machines have their place. :cool2

Well - I hear you.
But let's keep in mind when you compare to a track loader...
You need another machine and operator to load the "truck", then you need another machine and operator to stockpile at the other end (unless you have 10 acres to string out 50 loads - these are taskes easily accomplished by one machine and man on a loader.

 

[CM1995]

So they'll be no arguement about cheaper run costs on these toys compared to a real machine like a loader.

Well there won't be an argument but there will be some discussion on the issue. First of all I am a proponent of track loaders, in fact I think there are too many contractors out there that don't understand how useful they are. That being said there is also a reason why so many different types of equipment are out there for the choosing.

Yes these little crawler dumps are expensive for the payload they carry, compared to an artic or scraper. Cranes are expensive as well, with limited function other than lifting things ( an essential requirement for a lot of projects), hence the reason why GC's usually rent them. These little trucks are a good fit to any well apportioned rental fleet and have their place in the earth moving world, albeit not a large one but an important one nonetheless.

I had a project once where we were installing a large funky french drain system on a natural 2:1 slope. The field lines took water from two double wing inlets located in the project above. The access was tight and steep as the lines were located in a wooded tree save area below the development. We had enough room to set an excavator in there to cut the trench and an access road cut into the hill side to bring gravel and materials. The access road was 8' wide, towards the hillside and that was all we could get.

I searched for one of these little dumpers to rent but there were none in the B'ham area that weren't already rented. We ended up using a Bobcat T250 and a 953C (where we had access) to carry down #57 stone and rip rap. It was painfully slow due to the amount of material that was required. I would have loved to have had one of these trucks for that job.

Now if you compare the payload of one of these "toys" to the payload of a track loader over say a 300 yard distance, the price per ton or CY of material moved will definitely will be lower with a track dumper, if that is your baseline of comparison. We can all be experts on the internet but in reality each job and equipment selection is dependent upon the contractor, the equipment available to them and site conditions.

 

[special tool]

Well there won't be an argument but there will be some discussion on the issue. First of all I am a proponent of track loaders, in fact I think there are too many contractors out there that don't understand how useful they are. That being said there is also a reason why so many different types of equipment are out there for the choosing.

Yes these little crawler dumps are expensive for the payload they carry, compared to an artic or scraper. Cranes are expensive as well, with limited function other than lifting things ( an essential requirement for a lot of projects), hence the reason why GC's usually rent them. These little trucks are a good fit to any well apportioned rental fleet and have their place in the earth moving world, albeit not a large one but an important one nonetheless.

I had a project once where we were installing a large funky french drain system on a natural 2:1 slope. The field lines took water from two double wing inlets located in the project above. The access was tight and steep as the lines were located in a wooded tree save area below the development. We had enough room to set an excavator in there to cut the trench and an access road cut into the hill side to bring gravel and materials. The access road was 8' wide, towards the hillside and that was all we could get.

I searched for one of these little dumpers to rent but there were none in the B'ham area that weren't already rented. We ended up using a Bobcat T250 and a 953C (where we had access) to carry down #57 stone and rip rap. It was painfully slow due to the amount of material that was required. I would have loved to have had one of these trucks for that job.

Now if you compare the payload of one of these "toys" to the payload of a track loader over say a 300 yard distance, the price per ton or CY of material moved will definitely will be lower with a track dumper, if that is your baseline of comparison. We can all be experts on the internet but in reality each job and equipment selection is dependent upon the contractor, the equipment available to them and site conditions.

I highly disagree about cost per yard with a comparably priced machine.
AGAIN - you need another machine to load the truck and another machine at the dump site to pile it. Now let's talk about TWO additional operator paychecks.
By the way - tipping load of a 953 is around 19,000 pounds - whole bunch more than one of these fancy toys.

 

[willie59]

I highly disagree about cost per yard with a comparably priced machine.
AGAIN - you need another machine to load the truck and another machine at the dump site to pile it. Now let's talk about TWO additional operator paychecks.
By the way - tipping load of a 953 is around 19,000 pounds - whole bunch more than one of these fancy toys.

special tool, I find this fascinating, as it's been my observation over the years of being around equipment that it's not the norm for using a track loader as a designated material transport vehicle. Maybe folks do that, I just don't know as I'm not a track loader operator. Anyhow, I have a question, given my limited knowledge of track loaders; can you cram 19,000 lbs of material in a 953 bucket and walk it a distance without dropping some of the load along the way? I ask because I really don't know. We rented one of these machines to an outfit in Ohio that was working on a golf course and they didn't want the ground destroyed by turning the machine around for the drive back and they didn't want material dropped along the way, worked perfect for that project. As for being able to do the project with one machine and not needing an additonal machine and operator, I'm sure a hungry operator would love the opportunity to work the dumper.

 

[special tool]

special tool, I find this fascinating, as it's been my observation over the years of being around equipment that it's not the norm for using a track loader as a designated material transport vehicle. Maybe folks do that, I just don't know as I'm not a track loader operator. Anyhow, I have a question, given my limited knowledge of track loaders; can you cram 19,000 lbs of material in a 953 bucket and walk it a distance without dropping some of the load along the way? I ask because I really don't know. We rented one of these machines to an outfit in Ohio that was working on a golf course and they didn't want the ground destroyed by turning the machine around for the drive back and they didn't want material dropped along the way, worked perfect for that project. As for being able to do the project with one machine and not needing an additonal machine and operator, I'm sure a hungry operator would love the opportunity to work the dumper.

Hey, don't get me wrong - I have a site truck that I use with my excavators and I have loaders that I'll use to move material maybe up to 100-150 feet or so.
But these things cost BIG money and Komatsu parts are just a little more expensive than platinum.
The ground disturbance point is really moot because wherever you dump it, you still need to work the material with an ex./loader/dozer, etc.

I guess if you have 2 excavators on the site and no tractor (which I see a lot of younger guys doing), you could use 2-3 of them to move the pile away, then backfill after the job.....and you need 2-3 of them so that both excavators/ops aren't sitting there making videos between turns.

I don't know, I just use my dozer or loader to move/stockpile material on site in one shot and its done.

 

[2stickbill]

Yep those buggers are sure handy.On a pipeline the silt fence crew had one.The burning crew had one.We hauled fuel.heavy mats. Saved time and money.The undercarriage doesn't wear are cost like the steel ones.

 

[willie59]

Hey, don't get me wrong - I have a site truck that I use with my excavators and I have loaders that I'll use to move material maybe up to 100-150 feet or so.
But these things cost BIG money and Komatsu parts are just a little more expensive than platinum.
The ground disturbance point is really moot because wherever you dump it, you still need to work the material with an ex./loader/dozer, etc.

I guess if you have 2 excavators on the site and no tractor (which I see a lot of younger guys doing), you could use 2-3 of them to move the pile away, then backfill after the job.....and you need 2-3 of them so that both excavators/ops aren't sitting there making videos between turns.

I don't know, I just use my dozer or loader to move/stockpile material on site in one shot and its done.

Makes sense to me. I think it's been said earlier that all jobs require using equipment appropriate for that specific job, not a one size fits all solution. Generally speaking, when we've rented a crawler dumper, they're moving material a greater distance that 100 - 150 feet. We rented a MST 800 to an outfit in Maggie Valley NC where the incline railway attraction is. They loaded the Morooka, turned it backwards for needed ballast, and drove it straight up the side of that mountain backwards carrying material. Well, whatever it takes to get the job done I guess.

 

[Hendrik]

It's horses for courses, the track dumpers are primarily designed to work in muddy and hilly conditions and on rough worksites where punctures could be a problem.
My tracked site dumper will go up slopes that would not be possible for my Dingo, even on some level jobs that are real muddy the dingo will get bogged whilst the tracks just churn their way through.
To get some perspective, the dingo weighs about 1300kg loaded, whilst the track barrow weighs 600kg fully loaded. The track barrow has honda motor that runs all day on a small tank of fuel, whilst the dingo at full working speed drinks it's 20 liters of fuel real quick.
Also you don't need a machine to stockpile on the other end because you can build a hill of material by driving the dumper up onto the unloaded material.

 

[Taylortractornu]

Im a firm believer in in a site dumper. Back when we built all the display lots for Belmont homes, my brother bought a grey market 8 wheel Yanmar. It had 2 shifters one for each side, 3 speeds forward and 1 reverse. We had a 455 TLB and a 31 Komatsu dozer and a 100 excavator. It was really handy in the tight areas moving stone or debris or fill. It had a bout a 2 yard bed. We used it to haul pipe and also to move people around. Later on another outfit I worked for had a job where we were building a coffer dam on the side of the Tennessee river. We were moving clay and shot rock to make the dam. We used clay for the dam and the rock to armor it. We werent allowed to remove many trees to keep the site asthetic.


I was moving excavated material down the hill with a D66 E Komatsu track loader with a 3 yard bucket. It was fine to start the road and work the tope of the slope to the dam. It was around 200 feet from the stock pile to the dump. Branches were too low to run a wheel loader plus it wouldnt climb the hill because of the damp earth. I Knew a man that had a set of 3 grey market dumpers A small Yanmar with a 2 way seat and one big Morooka and a smaller Morooka with a boom and dump bed. The yanmar we loaded with a 580 Case TLB and let it haul about 3 yards per trip down to the loader. He had a bit faster travel time than the loader. Most time the loader operators stayed on the Dumper to haul a few hours worth of dirt then run the loader. The Yanmar was operated mostly with the operator facing backwards like a big wheel barrow. He made great time down the goat trail.

After getting the low dam all the way across with an access all the way around we put the bigger Morooka on hauling shot rock to armor the slope and haul the big dirt after the lower layers were plated. Tried to haul the dirt with the 250 and the 66 but they were slower the 250 wheeled loader wouldnt even climb the damp clay. The 250 loaded the big dumper the rest of the week. The mid sized dumper with the boom I did a ton of mechanic work out of it on the weekends Set pumps and gensets, hauled stemming gravel, stone and other material. They kept us working when other folks were going home. They do have their places for good weather and open places we used Moxy ADTs.

 

[willie59]

Im a firm believer in in a site dumper. Back when we built all the display lots for Belmont homes, my brother bought a grey market 8 wheel Yanmar. It had 2 shifters one for each side, 3 speeds forward and 1 reverse. We had a 455 TLB and a 31 Komatsu dozer and a 100 excavator. It was really handy in the tight areas moving stone or debris or fill. It had a bout a 2 yard bed. We used it to haul pipe and also to move people around. Later on another outfit I worked for had a job where we were building a coffer dam on the side of the Tennessee river. We were moving clay and shot rock to make the dam. We used clay for the dam and the rock to armor it. We werent allowed to remove many trees to keep the site asthetic.


I was moving excavated material down the hill with a D66 E Komatsu track loader with a 3 yard bucket. It was fine to start the road and work the tope of the slope to the dam. It was around 200 feet from the stock pile to the dump. Branches were too low to run a wheel loader plus it wouldnt climb the hill because of the damp earth. I Knew a man that had a set of 3 grey market dumpers A small Yanmar with a 2 way seat and one big Morooka and a smaller Morooka with a boom and dump bed. The yanmar we loaded with a 580 Case TLB and let it haul about 3 yards per trip down to the loader. He had a bit faster travel time than the loader. Most time the loader operators stayed on the Dumper to haul a few hours worth of dirt then run the loader. The Yanmar was operated mostly with the operator facing backwards like a big wheel barrow. He made great time down the goat trail.

After getting the low dam all the way across with an access all the way around we put the bigger Morooka on hauling shot rock to armor the slope and haul the big dirt after the lower layers were plated. Tried to haul the dirt with the 250 and the 66 but they were slower the 250 wheeled loader wouldnt even climb the damp clay. The 250 loaded the big dumper the rest of the week. The mid sized dumper with the boom I did a ton of mechanic work out of it on the weekends Set pumps and gensets, hauled stemming gravel, stone and other material. They kept us working when other folks were going home. They do have their places for good weather and open places we used Moxy ADTs.

Wow, nice work Taylor t. That's using equipment appropriate to the task. We've sold several of those dumpers with cranes mounted on them. Handy little units. :yup

 

[Taylortractornu]

I was 18 at the time we had the Yanmar 8 wheeler and 21 when I used the three. It was my first big job on my own for another company. I saw the problem we had by running the loader. I told my super about these little machines. The biggest Morooka had an inline six Mitsubishi engine in it. That job tbhey were well suited because the rain always traveled wit hthe river if there was any out there it usually hit us. We also had to leave the trees like we found them and do alot of restoration work by placing boulders and stuff back. One outfit I worked for had a Morooka Track loader, I only saw a few pics of one on the Net wished I could see on in person and better yet run it.

 

[willie59]

The biggest Morooka? The MST-800 has a 4D31 mitsu. But I'm thinking your describing the MST-1500 with the 6D14 mitsu engine. That sounds more like bigger Morooka. And the Morooka loader? I've never seen one. Now I want to slap you for not getting a pic of it.

 

[95zIV]

One outfit I worked for had a Morooka Track loader, I only saw a few pics of one on the Net wished I could see on in person and better yet run it.

Like this one?

http://www.directindustry.com/prod/morooka-co-ltd/track-loader-40828-325544.html

 

[Dozerboy]

The ground disturbance point is really moot because wherever you dump it, you still need to work the material with an ex./loader/dozer, etc.

Really? I love track loaders and miss them greatly, but if you think your going to move material down here with one. Your going to watch it sink to China 9 months out of the year.

 

[CM1995]

And the Morooka loader? I've never seen one. Now I want to slap you for not getting a pic of it.

Here's another one compliments of Machinery Trader



The inside of the cab gives me the shivers.....:bash

 

[special tool]

Now THAT'S a nice machine!!

 

[willie59]

Wow, I've never seen one of those CM1995. Nice pic.

Even uses a Z link bucket tilt like Cat uses.

LoL, looking at the pic, it looks like it's near Lookout Mountain.

 

[CM1995]

ATCO, I haven't seen one in person either - Machinery Trader is a good source of equipment info.:cool2

From the ad it says it's in British Columbia and I don't think it's far enough away from me.

 

[Taylortractornu]

Thats the one. I kept looking for our grey dealer to bring some over. They also made a tractor on a similar chassis that had a flat track and could raise up by adjusting the road wheel rollers and it made a tan like under carriage.