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Nobody talks about lifts
- Thread starter barklee
- Start date
willie59
Administrator
I haven't been around the 10k's, mostly the 6 and 8000 machines.
so i removed the back boom cover to look at the rear pads. I really didnt see anything that stood out. We noticed that the right side pads on the second boom didnt touch most of the way in or out. Also a few of the chains are slightly twisted where they attach to the boom on the inside and out side. Also when retracting the boom in the trouble area the chains drop all the way down with hardly any tension on them. Any of this a problem? I didnt get any pics that show this real well.
Attachments
I am a fleet owner (40) of SkyTraks. I am not a JLG dealer. The dealer should be involved in the maint for the first 1000 hrs or so. The chains definitely need to be tightened. I'd also lube the bottom pads on the extend side & the top pads when the boom is retracted. In other words, when they see pressure from the boom sections. The side pads don't wear much, as they see less weight.
willie59
Administrator
Don't see anything unusal there, but you can't really see the inner wear pads of the tip section. Be sure and keep those chain sheaves greased, I've seen contractors neglect those things and the bearings go down. Looks like the telescope cyl just has a simple internal pilot operated holding valve. No real way to test it for causing a problem telescoping in, short of replacement, and I'd say that thing is a little spendy. You might get it a little cheaper if you can identify it, like if it's a Sun, Deltrol, or Hydraforce cartridge valve, and purchase it from a dealer of these brand valves. Can you see any markings or stampings on the valve?
Is it a problem that the chains are turned to the side a bit where they go up around the pulley and connect to the boom? See the top of the third picture. Also is it a concern that the chains sag only when retracting in that trouble area? They are tight as piano strings when running the boom out
willie59
Administrator
That retract chain is in a twist because the adjusting bolt is locked down slightly turned, shouldn't affect operation of chain. The extend chains will sag because the retract chains are stretching, lot of pressure there. Sounds to me that the machine is just suffering from poor design to handle the kind of friction caused by retracting that long boom. You may have to lubricate boom sections where the wear pads contact the boom sections. It's messy, but you may have no choice. Don't sound like much of a solution though does it. :Banghead
Still gotta check that pressure from the pump. If that doesnt reveal something i will call in the big guns. Can United work on gehl stuff? The local Gehl dealer doesnt have any experience with the 10k machines, it sounds like not a lot period with lifts
icestationzebra
Senior Member
"Is it a problem that the chains are turned to the side a bit where they go up around the pulley and connect to the boom?"
No, this is natural due to small inaccuracies in the chain when it is made. The anchor will just rotate when you extend/retract the boom.
And Manitou doesn't own 50% of Gehl - they own it ALL! They bought the company in the fall of 2008 and Bill Gehl walked away with $12-15M. Manitou paid twice the going stock value and used up all their cash reserves. Manitou's president, who is a descendant of the founder, "retired" early for that little blunder and his heir apparent was fired.
"so i removed the back boom cover to look at the rear pads. I really didn't see anything that stood out. "
I can't really tell from your pictures, but you need to watch how much gap is between the top (or bottom) pad as it is extended. If there is a gap the whole distance you can add a set of shims. This will make it slightly easier to retract the boom when fully extended and reduce the boom droop. Do the same with the front pads.
"The ZF are great but pray that it never ever breaks."
We beat the &$%@ out of the ZF transmissions on the test track and never had a problem. The axles on the other hand had a lot of issues. They were originally modified ag axles. We broke almost every part on the test track. Supposedly the new ones are a lot better now. (but I didn't test 'em so I won't stand behind 'em) The Germans have a very segmented company, so the guys designing the transmissions don't know what the axle guys were doing, much less the guys designing the shifters.
"Don't get me wrong, Lull is a sweet machine especailly the new 6 and 8. The 10's are just boat anchors. "
The 1044C is very closely related the original 644/844 that came out in the late 70's. The machine is a lumbering beast with poor rear visibility. That is part of the reason the new machines where made as side engine. There was a prototype 1044E, but I don't think they could justify the tooling for the number of sales.
ISZ
No, this is natural due to small inaccuracies in the chain when it is made. The anchor will just rotate when you extend/retract the boom.
And Manitou doesn't own 50% of Gehl - they own it ALL! They bought the company in the fall of 2008 and Bill Gehl walked away with $12-15M. Manitou paid twice the going stock value and used up all their cash reserves. Manitou's president, who is a descendant of the founder, "retired" early for that little blunder and his heir apparent was fired.
"so i removed the back boom cover to look at the rear pads. I really didn't see anything that stood out. "
I can't really tell from your pictures, but you need to watch how much gap is between the top (or bottom) pad as it is extended. If there is a gap the whole distance you can add a set of shims. This will make it slightly easier to retract the boom when fully extended and reduce the boom droop. Do the same with the front pads.
"The ZF are great but pray that it never ever breaks."
We beat the &$%@ out of the ZF transmissions on the test track and never had a problem. The axles on the other hand had a lot of issues. They were originally modified ag axles. We broke almost every part on the test track. Supposedly the new ones are a lot better now. (but I didn't test 'em so I won't stand behind 'em) The Germans have a very segmented company, so the guys designing the transmissions don't know what the axle guys were doing, much less the guys designing the shifters.
"Don't get me wrong, Lull is a sweet machine especailly the new 6 and 8. The 10's are just boat anchors. "
The 1044C is very closely related the original 644/844 that came out in the late 70's. The machine is a lumbering beast with poor rear visibility. That is part of the reason the new machines where made as side engine. There was a prototype 1044E, but I don't think they could justify the tooling for the number of sales.
ISZ
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ZF Axles
Rentals were "off" (way off), so we moved into used parts.
A day doesen't go by without a call for ZF axle parts.
Early SkyTrak Legacy's (2001-2005) axles are failing.
We supply new & used replacement parts.
The boom reinforcement above the rear compansating cylinders are another issue. We have a field repair kit listed on our website (It may not go "live" till Tuesday) that I'd like some feeback on.
Rentals were "off" (way off), so we moved into used parts.
A day doesen't go by without a call for ZF axle parts.
Early SkyTrak Legacy's (2001-2005) axles are failing.
We supply new & used replacement parts.
The boom reinforcement above the rear compansating cylinders are another issue. We have a field repair kit listed on our website (It may not go "live" till Tuesday) that I'd like some feeback on.
I heard the European checks and balances said that if they bought Gehl they would have a controlling market share (monopoly) and that was not allowed. Heard they were not allowed to buy the whole company, only controlling interest.
The pads have some small gaps (maybe 3/16 max) at some points in the travel of the boom, but not through the whole motion. I think it just depends where the fulcrom point is in the motion. Thats were i get gun shy because i dont know what is acceptable and dont want to replace or add to pads that dont need it.
Sounds like you maybe work for Lull/ JLG?? The axles generally are only damaged when guys are doings something stupid (turning fast in crab mode with a full load on pavement) Not properly shifting, etc. Thats at least what we've found. However, our older 1044c has served us well, it has almost 6000 hrs and still going. Our 2005 model has been the problem child. Always something breaking or leaking.
Any rumblings of redesigning the 1044??? Or releasing that prototype you speek of?
The pads have some small gaps (maybe 3/16 max) at some points in the travel of the boom, but not through the whole motion. I think it just depends where the fulcrom point is in the motion. Thats were i get gun shy because i dont know what is acceptable and dont want to replace or add to pads that dont need it.
Sounds like you maybe work for Lull/ JLG?? The axles generally are only damaged when guys are doings something stupid (turning fast in crab mode with a full load on pavement) Not properly shifting, etc. Thats at least what we've found. However, our older 1044c has served us well, it has almost 6000 hrs and still going. Our 2005 model has been the problem child. Always something breaking or leaking.
Any rumblings of redesigning the 1044??? Or releasing that prototype you speek of?
Traverse was a good ole machine. GC we work for has a 8000#. Ran his several times, looks like a dinosaur with a seat on it! The one they have is pretty nice, i would guess they bought it new and babied it. Very stable with a load extended. Sets the brick right in and out of the scaffold
Well i got tired of guessing so i called United rentals to come out and look. They got the boom to go in and out ok. The grease was actually causing enough friction to cause part of the problem. He wiped the grease off and sprayed the boom with liquid lube and wouldnt ya know it went right in and out. Stiil a little trouble retracting so they are going to get from Gehl all of the pressures and set them accordingly. He thought the extend retract felt a bit low. I didnt know you could set each function.
icestationzebra
Senior Member
"I heard the European checks and balances said that if they bought Gehl they would have a controlling market share (monopoly) and that was not allowed. Heard they were not allowed to buy the whole company, only controlling interest."
I was working for Gehl when it happened, they are 100% owned by Manitou. There was no real monopoly concerns because the North American machines don't sell well in Europe (too big and bulky) and the Euro machines don't sell well here (too small and $$).
"What year was the 1044E prototype? How many 1044-c's were being made before things turned to crap? May be with JLG Accuplace the transverse will die soon? I hope not"
The proto was built soon after the 944E came out and I left the company. From what I've heard it is just sitting around. And I don't know how many 1044's they sell, but I would guess that it is <10% of the Lull production.
Also, I don't think that Accuplace is a direct replacement for transaction as you still don't get the reach. What worries me about the Accuplace system is that you need a computer, an electrically controlled valve, and some good sensors to measure boom angle/extension - how much $$ and how easy are they going to be to maintain and fix in the field? I'm skeptical that they won't have some teething problems.
ISZ
I was working for Gehl when it happened, they are 100% owned by Manitou. There was no real monopoly concerns because the North American machines don't sell well in Europe (too big and bulky) and the Euro machines don't sell well here (too small and $$).
"What year was the 1044E prototype? How many 1044-c's were being made before things turned to crap? May be with JLG Accuplace the transverse will die soon? I hope not"
The proto was built soon after the 944E came out and I left the company. From what I've heard it is just sitting around. And I don't know how many 1044's they sell, but I would guess that it is <10% of the Lull production.
Also, I don't think that Accuplace is a direct replacement for transaction as you still don't get the reach. What worries me about the Accuplace system is that you need a computer, an electrically controlled valve, and some good sensors to measure boom angle/extension - how much $$ and how easy are they going to be to maintain and fix in the field? I'm skeptical that they won't have some teething problems.
ISZ
icestationzebra
Senior Member
I'm sure it had a 4 section boom, wouldn't be worth doing otherwise. And yes it was a modified 644E/944E chassis. This way you can use a slightly modified frame with a common drivetrain and cab, or easily upgrade the axles and engine HP. Commonization saves on design, test, and manufacturing time - which all leads to $$.
ISZ
EMT
Member
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2010
- Messages
- 21
- Location
- Denver,CO
- Occupation
- Business Owner,salesman,manager and babysitter
I was working on a Gehl dl12-h a couple of day ago. The wierdest thing, the forks were in the air, operator was on uneven ground and when he put it in reverse the front right wheel was up in the air. this only happens intermittantly. But is was something I have only seen in sky tracs. Whats up with this?