Water pump rebuild 1s5910 for cat d4d 78a impeller assembly question

[CaptainB]

So I am working on rebuilding the water pump for my dozer it’s this one

I bought the impeller assembly 3s6607 and it looked fine but there was a lot of resistance with the shaft that has to go through the hole at the center of the impeller assembly and I broke the ceramic or plastic ring it was very flimsy I was being careful but I did use my plastic mallet because it wouldn’t fit now it looks like this



This is old stock oem and the impeller is a bit rusty but maybe the white ring around the opening was brittle from being old stock and who knows under what circumstances this thing was thing was kept stored etc. Btw the impller part number is 8h9239 not 3s6607 everywhere I looked I kept getting 8h9239 I Cant see on my old impeller the first numbers its too rusty and damaged but the last two number printed on the old impeller are 39

Also there is a seal assembly I forgot to order 2l5031 so my question is if the impeller is no good anymore or if maybe this white ceramic thing is not really necessary because I thought it was extremely brittle can’t imagine a ceramic ring being installed inside a dozer lasting more than a couple days knocking down brush etc

Or maybe I shouldn’t have ordered old stock caterpillar? If I have used sandpaper maybe to work the surfaces of bothe the shaft and the impeller hole this wouldn’t have happened maybe

So not sure what to do now any advice would be appreciated

Thanks

 

[pittsburgh cat man]

Impeller is done that is a ceramic ring that the carbon seal seals on impellor is pressed on to leave a specific gap between fins and housing

 

[Joe H]

Appliance repair and parts store might be able to help you. The seal probably fits lots dishwashers, washers ect. That ring is what the seal rides against, against bare cast iron impeller it won't last long although that's how some water pumps were when I was still wrenching.

A good parts store will know if that piece is available.

Joe H

 

[Joe H]

Stuck your seal number in search and first thing up is this ebay seal that looks like it may have that impeller shim https://www.ebay.com/itm/301752540991


Joe H

 

[CaptainB]

so I can just glue the new ceramic shield to this old impeller with like super glue or something? I think I will buy a new impeller because this old stock impeller looks a bit rusty

 

[pittsburgh cat man]

We always replaced the impellor when we damaged ceramic and I would have no idea where you could get another ceramic

 

[.RC.]

I did the water pump on the D330 engine in my 922 loader and the new genuine impellor came with the ceramic side of the seal already attached to the impellor. Then it just fell off. I think I put it back on with silicone gasket goo.

Only Cat parts give Cat performance... Right?

 

[Joe H]

Those seals are also in garbage disposers with the same rub ring.

I'd buy the ebay kit and see what you get.

That impeller looks fine to me.

Joe H

 

[CaptainB]

Ok thanks! ill try to glue a new ring to the impeller I got with the chipped ceramic ring, maybe high temperature epoxy will work i will google whats best, I finally bought a shop press the stupid ceramic ring broke because I tried pressing the impeller into the shaft using a rubber mallet, big mistake

thanks!

 

[Joe H]

Surprised you didn't break it, they're brittle.

Joe H

 

[CaptainB]

Those seals are also in garbage disposers with the same rub ring.

I'd buy the ebay kit and see what you get.

That impeller looks fine to me.

Joe H

Thanks for the advice Joe I found a ceramic seal it’s called “mechanical seal” I think it’s a bit thicker but I think it will work I used my press to see if it fits right or if it was too tight it looks ok to me hehehe thanks this website is amazing

So I will just use atv silicone to glue the ceramic ring to the impeller I will leave it to set slightly pressed overnight using the shop press

 

[Simon C]

I built a lot of 3304-3306 water pumps and the seals were glued in with " some super glue with Cat name ". I think the ceramic use to go on with rubber boot under if I recall, maybe the ceramics come as part of impeller now.
Simon C

 

[Joe H]

If that white piece is what your calling a mechanical seal it's way too thick.

When you press it together it will break the ceramic seal that rubs on it and stop before it's together.

What came in the seal kit? It can't be that piece, it won't work. Look at your picture of the original piece that broke. It's how thick, looks like flat washer thick.

Joe H

 

[CaptainB]

Yeah no the impeller had a 3mm thick ceramic ring that I destroyed by accident because I didn’t use a shop press at first to insert the shaft end into the impeller, but there is some clearance of about 1 mm for when the parts heat up and expand, as I am understanding this is tip of the shaft presses into the impeller with the seal then there is another seal for dust and coolant the the shaft gets considerably thicker and it serves as a stop for the components up to that point so I am imagining I may be able to make it work if not then I guess will just rebuild the stupid water pump again ahahahah it’s got to become evident before installing everything back into the dozer if it’s going to work or not I’m just using the dozer around the farm like 5 to 10 hours per week not going to build a pond or do construction or anything

 

[Joe H]

There's no clearance in there, the white piece against the impeller rides on the seal. The seal (next piece in your picture) has a spring that pushed the carbon seal against the white piece.

You put the seal in the body of the pump (a tiny bit of silicone there) and then press the impeller on.

The way you have it that big white piece is going to destroy the seal before the impeller is all the on.

Again, what came in the seal kit? Where did you get that white piece?

Joe H

 

[CaptainB]

Ohh so I bought the seal from the caterpillar dealer it’s the carbon ring with the spring and the silver lip, I bought the impeller old stock caterpillar from eBay, it had a 3 mm thick ceramic seal ring glued on but I destroyed it because I didn’t have a shop press and I was using a hammer instead and I was watching YouTube it was a big mistake ngl

So then I bought here in this stupid town where I live at the hardware store this ceramic ring 8 mm thick and it came bundled with another carbon seal with a spring and a silver metallic lip

So what I’m understanding is that at some point during the assembly process the carbon seal is gonna get destroyed? I’ll try it this way because otherwise I would have to order eithrt another impeller or the seal kit from eBay that comes with a spare ceramic ring (who knows how thick) and then I have to drive 3 hours each way to my mailbox location that I rent in the us I live in Mexico

 

[Joe H]

That white thing goes here, there's no way something thicker is going to fit. Order the ebay kit and go get your mail. There's no guarantee the impeller wonk break again when you try to crush that together.

Joe H

 

[Tones]

A word of caution fellas, don't touch those mechanical seals with bare skin, apparently can cause some huge health problems very similar to viton seals that have been in a fire. Was told this year's ago when I was reconditioning a jet drive pump .

 

[.RC.]

Your third option which probably is not feasible for you is to turn down the impeller on a metal lathe and inset the thicker ceramic seal by 5mm into the impellor.

 

[CaptainB]

yeah you were right

so I finally understood whats going to happen with the 8mm thick ceramic ring that I got it wont work because

There is going to be a 5 mm gap between the pump housing and the back plate so... big problem it will be impossible to install obviously

ok so ill have order a new impeller, there is one that seems to have a copper or brass ring its aftermarket, not sure if i should go with aftermarket old stock again because who knows if the ring is going to fall off or not

Ill post more photos when everything is done this is so exciting I have never rebuilt an old water pump

thanks!

Jose