Deere vs. Cat 160-200 size excavators

[BC Placer gold]

Some good examples of what a 120 size machine is capable of…

 

[skyking1]

Those are some good sized stumps, nice clean pile. Some piles around here are burned with about a 50 percent dirt content lol! Then they smoulder for a month…

The irony is I could not burn it. I had to hide it in a corner.
I kept it all clean but the burn permit they could get specifically stated no stumps, and the fire department had been out there so we dared not try.

 

[CM1995]

We use a version of the poor man's hammer on stumps - pick them up as high as the machine can lift and throw them. Usually after a couple of times most of the dirt comes off. Also helps to stack the bigger ones close to the burn pit so the heat can dry them out.

We place the stumps around the dirt berm to dry out.



Usually place the stumps in the fire pit at the end of the day (not supposed to add any material but ya' know) so they can sit in the hot coals all night. Next day take a poker log and 99% of the dirt comes off. Works well especially if you need to clean the burn pit out that morning before firing it back up again.

 

[skyking1]

I roll them on their butt cut and tooth as much as I can out of there before the dropping commences.
If you leave them roots up and it rains a bunch, that does not hurt either

 

[Farm Rigging]

Sounds like you won’t have to move the machine often; that would skew me towards the 200 size. The extra reach is substantial, as well as increased bucket capacity/digging power in hard ground. When clearing trees bigger is generally SAFER/faster….that said we have done a lot of clearing/road building with the 120’s. Digging test trenches/pits to maximum depth a blade would be a hindrance in our situation.

Production (especially when stripping overburden or moving tailings) with the 210 is more than doubled compared to the 120….increased reach and bucket size. The extra width (10’2” versus 8’ 6”) gives a fair bit of extra stability.

Stripping loose silt/gravel overburden (easy digging on our site) the 210 runs a 2 yard cleanup bucket versus a 1 yard bucket on the 120. In our situation that means more hours/day running the wash plant.

Regarding stability; the 135 (reduced tail) we ran was just as stable as the 120 (I actually thought it was a bit better)….but the 135 also had wide pads. All other specs on these machines are identical.

We are only allowed a 3m width on mining exploration trails so the 135 was really nice when road building on steep slopes with high cut banks.

This is trend I have been hearing, if you don't need to move it get a 200 or larger. Around here you can get a really nice 200plus sized machine, with maybe a few buckets for around $15-20k less than a 120-160 sized machine. I have seen lots of them for sale locally.

 

[Farm Rigging]

Here is some stumping I did with the 120 last spring.
This is the biggest stump and I messed with this big fir for a half our before it broke in two and gave up. That chunk was 3K by the butt dynamometer.
View attachment 303131

A 200 would have split that right off.
For a lot of stumping and road building, a 400 is the right size but the 120 is not so much fun. Did I get it done? Sure.

View attachment 303132

Don't let having an ass overhang hold you back.
I sneaked in there and back out without bending up that tarp garage.
View attachment 303133
I have a mini also, but I used the 120 here. There was no place to put the dirt to the side and the 120 reach made it possible. It all needed tracked out of there one way or another.

View attachment 303134

Very good points! Thank you very much for the pictures and times for digging the stumps! Very helpful for size comparison to what I have already. I could have (and have) dug out those size stumps with my 12,000lb machine. Extremely hard on it and not exactly friendly on your body either and you'd be there a very long time! Excavators are impressive this way. However, Based on what I am hearing this far, probably going to be leaning towards a bigger machine.

 

[Farm Rigging]

So, regarding deere and hitachi, who made who first? It has been said here and I've heard from a lot of other people that they are the same machine minus engine and pumps, so can you buy parts for each at opposing dealers? (eg. buying deere parts at hitachi and vice versa) And parts availability for hitachi, at least for the older machines, is it good being its a foreign machine? Are there grey market issues? And what is cat numbers for 200 sized machines again?

 

[Farm Rigging]

Or you could go really big for farm use, my buddy bought this beast for $25,000!, 11k less than we paid for a Deere 50 mini.

Even has a thumb. A bit of work to move though lol!

Haha! That thing must be a beast! Thats a very good price as well! Did you have to break it down to move it?

 

[BC Placer gold]

This is trend I have been hearing, if you don't need to move it get a 200 or larger. Around here you can get a really nice 200plus sized machine, with maybe a few buckets for around $15-20k less than a 120-160 sized machine. I have seen lots of them for sale locally.

I really doubt you would regret the larger size.

Same thing around here in regards to pricing, we got our 210 in 2017 for a really good price from our local Cat Finning dealer. It was an ex city of Kamloops machine and came with a full new undercarriage and 3 buckets (the vee bucket had the most use) dig and c/u bucket almost new.

 

[skyking1]

Well yeah the stick is off in that picture, and the counterweight.
There are no grey market Deere's period. There are no grey market Hitachi in that size in the US that I have seen.
Cat uses the last 2 numbers in a model to indicate metric tons. 320 = 20 metric tons.

 

[BC Placer gold]

Haha! That thing must be a beast! Thats a very good price as well! Did you have to break it down to move it?

Yes, he had to break it down. It was for quarry use (large dimension stone)

We were able to buy parts at either Deere or Hitachi. The Zx135 and Zx120 were both grey market, but seemed to be no problem (and was never mentioned when at a parts counter) but proceed with caution….due diligence etc,etc.

Second number in Cat is weight, ie. 320 is a 20t.

 

[BC Placer gold]

Well yeah the stick is off in that picture, and the counterweight.
There are no grey market Deere's period. There are no grey market Hitachi in that size in the US that I have seen.
Cat uses the last 2 numbers in a model to indicate metric tons. 320 = 20 metric tons.

That has me wondering now, I seem to recall Japanese writing on some decals etc. but possibly weren’t grey market. Would explain the ease of parts. Will have to look through some old photos.

 

[skyking1]

That has me wondering now, I seem to recall Japanese writing on some decals etc. but possibly weren’t grey market. Would explain the ease of parts. Will have to look through some old photos.

It is different in the US. You can get a grey market machine in, but it is more a matter of how likely.
I have seen a Japan made Cat 950 loader here. No dozers or excavators.
In the Washington area the Kobelco are the most likely grey machines and more likely they are smaller.

 

[Farm Rigging]

Well yeah the stick is off in that picture, and the counterweight.
There are no grey market Deere's period. There are no grey market Hitachi in that size in the US that I have seen.
Cat uses the last 2 numbers in a model to indicate metric tons. 320 = 20 metric tons.

Haha! Couldn't load the picture to full size... yep it is broken down. dumb question.
Ah, okay that makes sense on the cat numbers now.

 

[Farm Rigging]

Yes, he had to break it down. It was for quarry use (large dimension stone)

We were able to buy parts at either Deere or Hitachi. The Zx135 and Zx120 were both grey market, but seemed to be no problem (and was never mentioned when at a parts counter) but proceed with caution….due diligence etc,etc.

Second number in Cat is weight, ie. 320 is a 20t.

Good to know. Have seen deere machines running around with orange cylinders so I figured that you could.

 

[skyking1]

When I rebuilt the boom on the 120 those were hitachi surplus bushings.

 

[Farm Rigging]

When I rebuilt the boom on the 120 those were hitachi surplus bushings.

Nice! Now do these older machines (1990's early 2000's) have computers on them? If so, are there any year ranges to stay away from? I feel like I remember someone telling me that there was a certain year and model of cat that had issues for a short time.....

 

[skyking1]

they all have some sort of ECU if they have a dial throttle, which has been standard since the early 90's.
I can't comment on lemons though. I went to work in those years and it worked, or they sent me to another machine. Nothing stands out as particularly sucky, except I have no love for the 200 series old Cats. Those are out of your range anyway.

 

[PeterP9]

I got to say out of Cat/Deere/Hitachi, Hitachi would be my brand of choice. One of my main reasons is having an Isuzu Ive found they sip fuel and are all round a reliable engine. For land clearing/farm use I got to say a 200 is a good all round size, not to big to where there a pain to move, and not to small to where you aren't being productive. Just my 2 cents

 

[skyking1]

What part of Washington, @Farm Rigging ?

If you find a local machine, there is a mechanic/inspector here who has made helpful videos of how to do pre-purchase inspections, and you can also hire him if he can break loose from his schedule.
@John C. is the guy for this.