I was just wondering a while back when was the last year caterpillar machines was still non electronic. This new machines has way too much electronics because if there is a electronic failure then you must get a guy from caterpillar to come and fix it although you are a mechanic. No hard feelings to the people who like electronics.
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What was the last year when Caterpillar machines was still non-electronic?
- Thread starter Spoke
- Start date
92U 3406
Senior Member
Kind of a question with no right answer.
What machines? What application?
Most equipment started using electronics over 20-25 years ago. So if you're looking for a skid steer to plow your driveway a couple times in winter then something from the 90s/early 2000s will be fine.
Trying to be productive and make a living with a 20 year old excavator is a whole different story. Sure you don't have as much electrical to go wrong but you've got something that's worn out and is going to cost you big in other ways.
What machines? What application?
Most equipment started using electronics over 20-25 years ago. So if you're looking for a skid steer to plow your driveway a couple times in winter then something from the 90s/early 2000s will be fine.
Trying to be productive and make a living with a 20 year old excavator is a whole different story. Sure you don't have as much electrical to go wrong but you've got something that's worn out and is going to cost you big in other ways.
Mike L
Senior Member
you don’t always need a cat tech to come fix it. Some machines will give you a code through the display and nowadays there are plenty of options to plug into a machine without calling the dealer. Electronics are not the end of the world and they are not going away. Might as well learn how to work with them rather than fight them.
Your problem is that it was so long ago you’re talking about back into the 80s and a lot of that stuff is fairly worn out.
Parts availability is also hit or miss especially in these times.
Most customers find it hard to spend more money in repairs than the machine is worth and that’s what you are frequently going to have to do to do.
Parts availability is also hit or miss especially in these times.
Most customers find it hard to spend more money in repairs than the machine is worth and that’s what you are frequently going to have to do to do.
Coaldust
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mekanik
Senior Member
Ankles and arm pits I think.
92U 3406
Senior Member
I'm down, minus the last bit.
I've yet to run across one my age that fits that last description. We where talking about trading the other day and I said there no fur anywhere no more.........
Truck Shop
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Pew!
Traping not trading dang auto correct
OzDozer
Senior Member
The Cat 3126, introduced in 1997, was Caterpillars first electronically-controlled engine. I don't mind electronics, but they don't like dust, mud, heat, severe vibration and rough treatment - which is the treatment that most construction equipment gets. Plus, some of the electronic stuff comes with factory glitches.
Nephew bought a new Cat 140M grader in 2014 and it wasn't long before it wouldn't go over 9kmh, no matter what he tried. Cat dealer tried to fix it, they worked on it for 2 weeks with no success. The dealer ended up flying in a Caterpillar design engineer from the U.S. to Australia, and he went to work on it and found software glitches whereby the multiple ECU's in the grader weren't "talking to each other". He had to recode some of the programming in the ECU's, as I understand. He got it working good, finally, but I hate to think what it cost Cat to fix.
Nephew bought a new Cat 140M grader in 2014 and it wasn't long before it wouldn't go over 9kmh, no matter what he tried. Cat dealer tried to fix it, they worked on it for 2 weeks with no success. The dealer ended up flying in a Caterpillar design engineer from the U.S. to Australia, and he went to work on it and found software glitches whereby the multiple ECU's in the grader weren't "talking to each other". He had to recode some of the programming in the ECU's, as I understand. He got it working good, finally, but I hate to think what it cost Cat to fix.
Elvenhome21
Member
If the machine has a radio in it and it has a cassette deck it's non electronic Cat
The thing not to like about electronics in machines or? Is the top secret black boxes that control everything. Unlike the normal old shop manuals of the old days to say 1980's, they would show how to work on every detailed aspect of the machine. Now there is nothing on how to fix a multi thousand dollar master control black box, nor are many folks allowed to even have computer access to them. That is the main huge problem with electronics in anything nowadays, no matter what the device is. The old Heatkit days are gone.
OzDozer
Senior Member
I get annoyed when you purchase a code reader and it says there's no fault codes! - even though the machine/engine/vehicle is not performing as it should! Then you find that ECU's don't record all faults, only the ones they've been programmed to find!
I bought a new luxury Ford car in mid-1990. It had climate control! - woo-hoo! Dial up the temperature, and the cabin got to that preselected temperature and stayed there. Then, just before the warranty ran out, the climate control/air conditioning stopped working.
Took it into the Ford dealership and the service manager delighted in showing me how if you pressed multiple buttons at the same time on the controls, the CC went into "self-diagnosis" mode and broke up the circuitry into 10 different sections, and then tested them all, and produced the code for the fault!
So I said, "Show me!" - and he pressed all the buttons for the self-test - and it came up with "No fault found" - and he got quite upset that it wouldn't work! So he said, "We'll have to run it through the workshop and go into this in depth!". So he did, and I got the car back - with the CC working - and I said, "So, you found the fault?". "Oh yes", he said, "It was a dirty fuse on the back of the A/C compressor!"
I drove around the rest of the day, and within 2 hrs, the CC had stopped working again. So I took it back again. The workshop set to on it again, and I got the car back, and the CC was working again.
I said to the manager, "So you really did find the fault, this time around?" And he replied, "Yes, it was the microprocessor (the ECU) for the climate control that had failed. The ECU can test the circuitry, but they can't test themselves, once they've failed!"
One of the biggest failings I have noticed with vast levels of electronics in machinery, is an increase in fires caused by electrical faults. When they start to burn with an electrical fault, they're usually a total write-off.
I bought a new luxury Ford car in mid-1990. It had climate control! - woo-hoo! Dial up the temperature, and the cabin got to that preselected temperature and stayed there. Then, just before the warranty ran out, the climate control/air conditioning stopped working.
Took it into the Ford dealership and the service manager delighted in showing me how if you pressed multiple buttons at the same time on the controls, the CC went into "self-diagnosis" mode and broke up the circuitry into 10 different sections, and then tested them all, and produced the code for the fault!
So I said, "Show me!" - and he pressed all the buttons for the self-test - and it came up with "No fault found" - and he got quite upset that it wouldn't work! So he said, "We'll have to run it through the workshop and go into this in depth!". So he did, and I got the car back - with the CC working - and I said, "So, you found the fault?". "Oh yes", he said, "It was a dirty fuse on the back of the A/C compressor!"
I drove around the rest of the day, and within 2 hrs, the CC had stopped working again. So I took it back again. The workshop set to on it again, and I got the car back, and the CC was working again.
I said to the manager, "So you really did find the fault, this time around?" And he replied, "Yes, it was the microprocessor (the ECU) for the climate control that had failed. The ECU can test the circuitry, but they can't test themselves, once they've failed!"
One of the biggest failings I have noticed with vast levels of electronics in machinery, is an increase in fires caused by electrical faults. When they start to burn with an electrical fault, they're usually a total write-off.
mekanik
Senior Member
I have been working on mostly trucks but some equipment since electronics started showing up. There were some growing pains in the beginning but nowadays ECM and electronic component failures are rare. Engine sensors fail occasionally and Allison transmission TCU's seem to give trouble once in a while. The biggest cause of electronic problems is bad connections and rubbed and broken wires. From what I have seen most mechanics start at the wrong end of the "trouble shooting tree" or flow chart.
OzDozer
Senior Member
A friend owns a 5 tonne Hino truck with a dry pan body. He hauls mattresses and foam with it. He bought the truck new, about 3 years ago. He was driving down a local freeway when the truck engine just stopped dead.
He managed to coast to an exit, where he was able to park and call a tow truck. The tow truck delivered the Hino to the local Hino dealer, and they got to work on it, and diagnosed a major fault in the engine ECU wiring.
However, they could not find the wiring fault! It took them THREE days to find that there was a BROKEN wire to the ECU, right in the MIDDLE of the huge wiring harness, that runs across the chassis under the radiator.
No-one could tell my buddy what had caused the wiring break, that was right in the centre of a big bunch of wires. The harness had never been damaged, or even hit in any manner. It was decided that the harness wire must have incurred a fault during its manufacture, and the manufacturing fault was not picked up during the manufacturing/QC process.
The Hino dealer had to replace the whole section of wiring harness, and it took several more days to acquire the replacement section of wiring harness.
He managed to coast to an exit, where he was able to park and call a tow truck. The tow truck delivered the Hino to the local Hino dealer, and they got to work on it, and diagnosed a major fault in the engine ECU wiring.
However, they could not find the wiring fault! It took them THREE days to find that there was a BROKEN wire to the ECU, right in the MIDDLE of the huge wiring harness, that runs across the chassis under the radiator.
No-one could tell my buddy what had caused the wiring break, that was right in the centre of a big bunch of wires. The harness had never been damaged, or even hit in any manner. It was decided that the harness wire must have incurred a fault during its manufacture, and the manufacturing fault was not picked up during the manufacturing/QC process.
The Hino dealer had to replace the whole section of wiring harness, and it took several more days to acquire the replacement section of wiring harness.