AC pressure readings and problem with dealer.

[fastline]

Doug, did you get anywhere with this?

 

[Doug580l]

Doug, did you get anywhere with this?

Nothing yet.

They keep pushing off working on it. I think they are hoping to put it off until it cools off this fall and I won't need my ac, lol. Supposedly they are going to look at it next week. I'll let you know what happens when they work on it. My concern is that they are going to send it back again without fixing it again and say that it's fine.

Thanks

 

[Birken Vogt]

Here is what I do with dealers and warranty. When they call and say it's done. I say send me over the warranty invoice. Read what they tested and what they found and what they did about it. If they did nothing tell them try again and actually do something this time. Then you don't have to bring it out and back or even waste a trip.

 

[Welder Dave]

Are they giving you a loaner while you're waiting around for them to get to it?

 

[Doug580l]

Here is what I do with dealers and warranty. When they call and say it's done. I say send me over the warranty invoice. Read what they tested and what they found and what they did about it. If they did nothing tell them try again and actually do something this time. Then you don't have to bring it out and back or even waste a trip.

Great advice. Planning on getting the paperwork. They gave me the paperwork the first time I sent it in. It pretty much said that 60 degrees out of the vent was normal. They sent the machine back without contacting me. On the second service I told them to call me before they sent it back. They said they fixed it by cutting off one of the drain valves that was plugged and didn't send any paperwork. I'm going to ask for the paperwork for the second visit as well as the next one.

 

[Doug580l]

Are they giving you a loaner while you're waiting around for them to get to it?

Nope. The machine is a little better than it was initially. When it was in the mid 90's, it would be about 90 in the machine. Now it gets down to the mid 80's, which isn't comfortable but it is at least bearable. If they don't fix it this time I will ask about a loaner. I'm retired and using the machine on my property. If I was still in business I would of gotten a loaner. I've been trying to be accommodating as possible but that may of been a mistake.

 

[Welder Dave]

Shouldn't matter. You probably paid more than a contractor too. Is your money not as good? If they have your machine and can't figure it, they should absolutely give a loaner. Your work is just as important to you.

 

[Doug580l]

Shouldn't matter. You probably paid more than a contractor too. Is your money not as good? If they have your machine and can't figure it, they should absolutely give a loaner. Your work is just as important to you.

Ya, I'm sure I paid more for my machine. As far as the loaner, that's not really been the issue. When they do "work" on the machine, it's only gone a day or so, but they send it back still not working properly. I'm planning on talking to the service guy before they bring it back and if I'm not satisfied, I'm gonna to talk to someone at Bobcat and see if they will do something.

 

[Doug580l]

Update on AC issues.

The dealer picked up the machine last Thursday. They called Friday and said everything is working as it should. They said they were getting 48 degrees out of the vents and pressures were fine. I checked and it was 82 degrees out when they called. I told them that it should be at least 10 degrees colder and that I didn't want the machine back until they fixed it. I also asked about the water coming out of the vents. They said they didn't see any. I told him to give me a call before they plan to send it back and I wanted the paperwork for this visit and the last one.

They dropped it off yesterday without calling me, of course. The salesman dropped it off. I asked for the paperwork and he said since they didn't replace anything there is no paperwork. Even though there was paperwork for the first time they worked on it and didn't replace anything. He said that they removed another one of the drain line valves. I asked about the water coming out of the vents and he said a little condensation is normal. Obviously I'm not happy. I told him I'd run the machine for a while and see if it's any better. It's worse. It was about 85 and humid out. I ran the machine about 20-30 minutes and the coldest the vents got were about 55 and there's way more water coming out of the vents now. Here's a link to a couple videos my wife put on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7oSP2nbXp-vsL9VCTymRYg

Just got off the phone with Bobcat customer service. They said everything goes through the dealer. The only thing they can do is file a complaint, which seems worthless to me but I will do anyway. They did say that I can bring it to another dealer if I want, but now I'm going to have to pay transport to a dealer around 90 miles away.

 

[fastline]

This is horrible!!!! IMO, this is moving away from just fixing an air conditioner, and towards nailing a dealer to the wall!!!! If not already shared, I recommend you provide your dealer information so people can beware of these deadbeats!!!

What is going to have to happen is open the air handler box!!!! Spitting water like that is NOT NORMAL!!!! Honestly, I highly question that they every checked any pressures, recharged, etc, nothing. There is no sense in a recharge until the water issue is investigated.

What I would do? I would start calling OTHER dealers, talk directly with the dealership owners, until you find one that cares!!! They can likely get you an inside contact with Bobcat or transfer your info to the right people. Bobcat is BIG, but NOT big enough to blow off customers like that.

Around here, CAT is king, but our dealership is what made that happen. I cuss them because they certainly miss some repairs, but they also have district guys that take customer service personal and WILL get to the bottom of an issue, where other steps fail.

Unfortunately the way problems get solved anymore is making a lot of noise. I would NEVER settle for that BS! Bobcat needs to get involved.

 

[Welder Dave]

Yeah horrible customer service to the point of telling the dealer you want a new machine. Get a loaner to compare how the AC works on a different new machine. BS everything goes through the dealer. That's just Bobcat passing the buck so they don't have to deal with it. They need to deal with it after all the trouble you've had with the dealer.

 

[Doug580l]

This is horrible!!!! IMO, this is moving away from just fixing an air conditioner, and towards nailing a dealer to the wall!!!! If not already shared, I recommend you provide your dealer information so people can beware of these deadbeats!!!

What is going to have to happen is open the air handler box!!!! Spitting water like that is NOT NORMAL!!!! Honestly, I highly question that they every checked any pressures, recharged, etc, nothing. There is no sense in a recharge until the water issue is investigated.

What I would do? I would start calling OTHER dealers, talk directly with the dealership owners, until you find one that cares!!! They can likely get you an inside contact with Bobcat or transfer your info to the right people. Bobcat is BIG, but NOT big enough to blow off customers like that.

Around here, CAT is king, but our dealership is what made that happen. I cuss them because they certainly miss some repairs, but they also have district guys that take customer service personal and WILL get to the bottom of an issue, where other steps fail.

Unfortunately the way problems get solved anymore is making a lot of noise. I would NEVER settle for that BS! Bobcat needs to get involved.

I don't know what all is involved when I file a complaint against the dealer. I am hoping that someone from corporate will talk to me, assuming they care. I sent a link to the videos to the dealer and am waiting to see if they will acknowledge that there is something wrong that needs to be fixed. If they don't get back to me by tomorrow I will file the complaint and start looking for another dealer to service it.

 

[Doug580l]

Yeah horrible customer service to the point of telling the dealer you want a new machine. Get a loaner to compare how the AC works on a different new machine. BS everything goes through the dealer. That's just Bobcat passing the buck so they don't have to deal with it. They need to deal with it after all the trouble you've had with the dealer.

I brought up the fact that my new machine isn't working properly and if they aren't able to fix it they should replace it. Unfortunately they say it is fixed. Their words yesterday was that the machine is "within specs". The specs say that the air coming out of the vents should be between 36 and 53 degrees, so if they can get it to 53 degrees on an 80 degree day then it's within specs.

 

[suladas]

I brought up the fact that my new machine isn't working properly and if they aren't able to fix it they should replace it. Unfortunately they say it is fixed. Their words yesterday was that the machine is "within specs". The specs say that the air coming out of the vents should be between 36 and 53 degrees, so if they can get it to 53 degrees on an 80 degree day then it's within specs.

Did they provide some form of paperwork indicating what temp is within limits, instead of just throwing out a number? If the spec is 36-53 bring it on a really hot day, if it can't hit 53 it's out of spec by their own numbers. I would also email bobcat directly so it's not related and ask them what vent temp you can expect on a new machine as you are worried they might not have good enough a/c, don't tell them you have a machine with an issue, let them think you are considering buying one. Have they showed you another new machine to show it has the same vent temps? That would be a pretty easy thing to justify that it's working properly, if it actually was working properly. That water is totally not normal though, you shouldn't have water dripping out vents. I've never seen that on any a/c system ever.

 

[Doug580l]

Did they provide some form of paperwork indicating what temp is within limits, instead of just throwing out a number? If the spec is 36-53 bring it on a really hot day, if it can't hit 53 it's out of spec by their own numbers. I would also email bobcat directly so it's not related and ask them what vent temp you can expect on a new machine as you are worried they might not have good enough a/c, don't tell them you have a machine with an issue, let them think you are considering buying one. Have they showed you another new machine to show it has the same vent temps? That would be a pretty easy thing to justify that it's working properly, if it actually was working properly. That water is totally not normal though, you shouldn't have water dripping out vents. I've never seen that on any a/c system ever.

I have the service manual and it states that the vent temps should be between 36 and 53 depending on the humidity. I told them this after they sent it back the first time and said the 60 degrees I was getting was fine. They said that there will only be a 20-25 degrees difference between the vents and outside temps. When I sent the machine back the second time I put a copy of the specs on the seat of the machine for them.

As far as comparing the vent temps to another machine, they made it clear that when they checked the machine it was within their specs. Doesn't matter what another machine is.

 

[Vetech63]

It sounds like they don't have any service people that know much about air conditioning. You still risk getting your warranty voided if you attempt any work on this yourself. You're in a catch 22 right now.

 

[John C.]

I read through this thread last night and had to let it stew a bit on the burning inside my head. I do have a couple of questions and observations based on what little I've had to do for operator complaints about air conditioning. I'll play the levels advocate here for a minute or two.

My first question is do you shut the door and all the windows while running the AC? Do you have it recirculating the air inside the cab. The reason I bring it up is because you keep getting water being blown out the vents. Water would be a normal occurrence in a humid and hot climate because cooling the air would drop the water out. Cool air won't hold as much water. But if you are recirculating the air in the cab, the air will get dryer over time and the water will go away. We had tremendous complaints about AC when the weather would warm up in this area. The reason would be obvious when we drove out and saw the machine from half a mile away. The front window and door was open along with the side window. The cab filters would be found to be plugged and the air mix door was stuck. The training for the operator was that fact that the AC unit only had the capacity to cool the cab, and not whole outdoors. Basically they had a choice, close things up or forget about the AC.

I also keep seeing a reference to a TXV or what is known as a thermal expansion valve. I worked quite a bit with those kinds of valves when I was in the navy. We had huge chill water units and a couple of big freezers that used them. When I got out and started working with auto and equipment units like Red Dots and such, I found out that they didn't use TXVs. All they had was an orifice and the switching worked purely on pressure.

I don't mean to be blunt but if I were the service manager and it was found that the compressor is working properly, the pressures are at specification, the evaporator and condensers are clean and the receiver dryer wasn't plugged, then there is nothing wrong with the system. The more likely issue is the interpretation of how the system is supposed to work. Interpretations and opinions are not a warranty issue.

 

[heymccall]

John C pretty much covered my thoughts on the water in cab and the operational characteristics.
Where I really get lost is that adding refrigerant made no change, good or bad.

Heck, if I leave the fan clutch activated on my peterbilt, and the ac on while idling, on humid, hot days, water will actually condense on the dash panel and the hvac box itself.

And, every modern mini machine, excavator, skidsteer, or compact track loader here has an hvac system with compromises that make them inefficient or slobbery, or weak on some days, and, we never, ever run the machines with the doors and windows closed.

I'm not saying the ac is right, but, nowhere have I seen verification of the cutout temp on the anti-icing switch, nor am I familiar with how the hvac box is constructed.

Cat puts unloader nipples in the large excavator HVAC drain tubes, that always clog with dirt buildup, so much so that I've removed them. Left clogged, water will come out the vents.
And Takeuchi excavator hvac boxes have the blower so low in the housing that condensate can spit out the vents when working on slopes.

One of my TB180FR machines (I has 4) has similar temperature issues, and I'll be replacing the anti-icing switch as soon as I feel like driving 4 hours to that empty (waiting in materials) jobsite.

 

[suladas]

Maybe it's a temp difference here but my Volvo 210 and my Deere 319 I can run with the door closed all day long without an issue, on the hottest of days the Deere a/c can't quite keep up but it's close. I can't say i've ever seen water come out the vents even with a/c on full for hours on end. However 90f is a really hot and really rare day here, generally cooler then that. My Takeuchi 153 a/c is completely useless, i've never even bothered with it, but it's also a 2006. If I was buying a 2022 i'd expect to be able to close everything up and the a/c keep the cab comfortable, I wouldn't buy any machine that wasn't capable of doing that. I don't think it's a lot to ask, a vehicle has been able to have a/c so cold at the hottest of days it'll freeze you out for over 20 years why can't equipment be capable of keeping the cab comfortable? The smaller machines have tiny cabs, it's not a lot of space to cool.

The thing I don't get is, if the system is working fine, why wouldn't the dealer show him another machine so they can say "see it's working exactly the same as yours" and it would be case closed.

One thing you could look into is tinting some of the windows. I tinted the rear one on my mini when it broke, it helps a bit. Could tint both side windows, i'd imagine it would help quite a bit.

 

[Doug580l]

It sounds like they don't have any service people that know much about air conditioning. You still risk getting your warranty voided if you attempt any work on this yourself. You're in a catch 22 right now.

Exactly. But since they won't honor the warranty it probably doesn't matter. Problem is that I have no idea what to do. Maybe I should start with replacing the thermostat, then the expansion valve and compressor.