Truck Shop
Senior Member
The proper way to do under carriage/tracks is when it gets worn out----------
sell it.
sell it.
-
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Looking HARD at purchasing a 100T portable track pin press......anybody use one and have thoughts??
- Thread starter Monkeywithawrench
- Start date
Monkeywithawrench
Senior Member
Didn't even think of the litigious end of it. To busy looking at trying to get one. YOU bring up an excellent point regarding that. No, the track wasn't a Positive Pin Retension (PPR) system (I added that for anyone else looking at this thread who might not know what PPR stands for). Just a 2" pin squished into a really tight hole on a CAT 336 that has had the track thrown a couple of times because the tensioner was screwed up and the owner didn't want to replace it. Then monkey's hammered the track back on with the bucket. It was driven around for a while with a broken pin because.........hey, it moves just fine with a broken pin. I don't want to take the time or spend the money to fix it right now...........so the links got screwed up.........etc, etc, etc. Now it's an emergency and needs to FIXED NOW and CAT didn't have all the parts.........BLLLAAAAHHHHHH. So, ultimately; my body pays and my mental attitude pays for trying to ETHNIC rig the track back together.
The WTC Machinery FP100 does have additional tooling for the press for a PPR system. I've been querying the sales guy on what size the side plates are and what thickness they are. I think I like that system better than the TB2000. More versatility. But, according to the sales guy at WTC; the side plate thickness and what material is used is TOP SECRET. CAN'T TELL YA, OR WE'LL HAVE TO SHOOT YOU!! That pisses me off.
As for a separate charge..............do you charge separately when you plug your laptop in to do diagnostics?? I do. The truck dealers do.
If I spend all day heating the **** out something or cutting with the plasma cutter or gas torches............there is charge for that to pay for the gas or welding machine and consumables on the plasma cutter. I charge $130/hr dock to dock.........plus $1.25/ mile travel. That $130 is pretty cheap compared to CAT, Volvo, or John Deere. That hourly rate gets you the diesel powered toolbox with the tools and me. Anything else that is substantial is extra.
Monkeywithawrench
Senior Member
LOVE THAT!!!
Same guy.............he owns a 315. Bushings are completely gone on one side, sprockets are junk. Just one 1 side. For 3 years now he's said he's getting rid of it. Trading it in and getting another machine. It will happen soon.........BANG!!!............Hey, can you come fix the track?? I need it now!!..............NO!!! LOL
Monkeywithawrench
Senior Member
Didn't you say you needed a track press for the KW???
I think it was for the brake chamber pins................LOL.
How's that project going, D?? I haven't checked in on the progress as of late.
I just want to be rich, buy a mountain in Maine, build a house on the side of it, and fly my helicopter in and out..........no access road.
My neighbor, in Maine who built his log house 20 years ago up the hill from our camp wanted to do that; wasn't going to have the road plowed up to his house and use snow machines (snowmobiles) to get up and down. Park the cars by our house. Wouldn't have been able to get insurance if he did that.
As it is..........the oil company won't go up to the houses after the first snow, the power company hates going to his house in the winter, and the fire dept certainily isn't getting up there!!LOL
My parents built our camp back in '67 (you know.........back in the 1900's!! As my nieces and nephews say....LOL). Got up that road with studded snows and the one wheel drive station wagon. NOW THAT taught you how to drive!!LOL
tctractors
Senior Member
I have 3 Track Pin press sets and like Bluox I have been at this work for more than 50 years so I have a good idea of the work involved, you will see loads of interesting snaps of my work in the Caterpillar sprocket pulling thread, anyhow the pressing of Master pins that are 6 months old or more is a total waste of time, just cut them out with the gas and stop messing about as the cost is not worth it as the pin will have loads of wear, the D8 runs a 50mm pin not an 1" 3/4 as listed try the old Vintage D8 for this size, anyhow I really only press new pins in and it's not a game I would let anyone use my kit as it can soon go wrong, I work by myself near always and would not be happy to have any Tom Dick or Harry stood around in case of drama, the pin press in the above script looks a handy thing for someone but not for me it's to ungainly and bulky, I would have a pin pressed and gone while you would still be looking for your number 23, as for earning coins I charge my standard rate plus an extra press charge, or quote a price for 1 or 2 pins to be pressed knowing that the second pin in the other track (often) takes only a few min's to press as all the kit is out, I use the 2 CAT tension rod system it has now been superseded by CAT's money men but I love as it's light strong and works a treat, Big Nozzi do a mean press also Berco but as for hire tools I would forget it, also the $500 charge thought you might struggle to get fools to pay this sort of coin, in the U.K. Equipment owners would just laugh. tctractors
DMiller
Senior Member
KW is sort of on hold at the moment as I heal from a slight tumble, cracked a pair of ribs.
Slight tumble? Another 50 bucks you would have been totaled.
Bob
Monkeywithawrench
Senior Member
So you use a tie rod system?? Trying to educate myself on which way is the best to go..........so please bear with in mundane questions.
How many ton ram do you use for the D8's?? I work by myself as well. Its when its 10 pm and I've been out all day, the tools are breaking, my body is breaking down, and I'm out of patience that I create my own drama.
I'm sure with practice I'll get as good and fast as you.
LOL.......maybe I should come over for the summer and apprentice with you!!
Monkeywithawrench
Senior Member
Sorry to hear that!! I hope they heal fast..........but sadly, at our age bumps and tumbles are felt for weeks instead of days or hours back when we were young bucks!!
Truck Shop
Senior Member
I was worth a buck back then, only 0.89.
Monkeywithawrench
Senior Member
The insurance has gotten the total bill from the doctors and the hospital yet. One more cotton swab and he'll be totalled!! LOL
It would be great if there was away to real know if it was a smart move to spend the money on some thing. I guess if you dont owe alot on other stuff and you are going to stay in the business then it would be ok. I think there are times when buying a tool,truck or piece of equipment dosent make scents and will not pay for its self alone but it helps out so much in the big picture its the best money ever spent.
John C.
Senior Member
It sounds like you are working on old busted and worn out tracks that should have been replaced completely anyway. I feel you pain and understand what you are working with.
I've had to do that on Komatsu PC1000 tracks when they first came out and we had multiple machines in the territory. Pins were breaking and the broken pieces were still inside the bushings. I forget the size of the pins but we had to use a 200 ton press to try to push the broken stuff out. Gas axed the main parts of the broken pins out but there were always pieces of shrapnel imbedded on the insides of the bushings. At first we would just have one broken pin at a time and then several at a time and then we were replacing multiple links in sections. Would cut the sections out, trim off the ends of the bushings and then put the sections in with master pins on each end. It took just shy of 100 tons to push one side of the master pin. When the other side would engage with the far link, 200 tons would not be enough to get the pin flush with the outside of the link. We had one side stick out and rub the track guides and that was just the way it was going to be. That much pressure would also compress the links too tight and now the pad bolt holes would not line up so you could put the pad back on. You had to heat and beat on the side still sticking out to get the pad bolt holes back in line. About two years of covering warranty claims on the tracks and Komatsu brought out an update with new chains and that problem died away.
I've seen lots of bad things happen on the 100 ton C frame presses and was real nervous on the 200 ton press. It used four big rods and a press plate on the far end to push against. Renting out something that can make that much pressure is just not something that I would ever consider. Big hammers are bad enough for flying steel.
I've had to do that on Komatsu PC1000 tracks when they first came out and we had multiple machines in the territory. Pins were breaking and the broken pieces were still inside the bushings. I forget the size of the pins but we had to use a 200 ton press to try to push the broken stuff out. Gas axed the main parts of the broken pins out but there were always pieces of shrapnel imbedded on the insides of the bushings. At first we would just have one broken pin at a time and then several at a time and then we were replacing multiple links in sections. Would cut the sections out, trim off the ends of the bushings and then put the sections in with master pins on each end. It took just shy of 100 tons to push one side of the master pin. When the other side would engage with the far link, 200 tons would not be enough to get the pin flush with the outside of the link. We had one side stick out and rub the track guides and that was just the way it was going to be. That much pressure would also compress the links too tight and now the pad bolt holes would not line up so you could put the pad back on. You had to heat and beat on the side still sticking out to get the pad bolt holes back in line. About two years of covering warranty claims on the tracks and Komatsu brought out an update with new chains and that problem died away.
I've seen lots of bad things happen on the 100 ton C frame presses and was real nervous on the 200 ton press. It used four big rods and a press plate on the far end to push against. Renting out something that can make that much pressure is just not something that I would ever consider. Big hammers are bad enough for flying steel.
Monkeywithawrench
Senior Member
JOHN,
WOW!!! It's almost like you were there!! LOL Was that you lurking in the shadows of the dark night?? Yeah, by the time I got to the track pads.........finish line and my bed in sight..........I had run out of patience. YES, the bolt holes didn't line up!! Off by 1/2 the bolt diameter. NO............didn't take the time to mess w/ the links. Pulled out the blue tip track pad hole adjuster while muttering to myself........."4 tracks pads..........pack up........get out..........4 track pads..........pack up.........get out............come on........you can do it...........KEEP MOVING!!! DON'T STOP!!! DON'T THINK ABOUT IT!! JUST DO IT!! LETS GO FARRELL!! MOVE WITH A PURPOSE!! "(my old sergeants voice in my ear).
And if someone asked me to moneky w/ a PC1000 track...........hard pass, thank you for asking!!
So.........what are your thoughts on keeping the links from getting squished together?? I've thought about........after this last debacle........making a jig with a spacer to keep the links in place while they get squished.
Also wondered if 100 tons is enough or should go w/ a 150T unit. And the debate on C press or Tie Rod rages in my mind daily. What thoughts, good sire; on Tie rod versus C press??
Just in from putting a Hiab knuckle boom back together again on a form truck. Started at 5am to beat the heat. Finished at noon..........thermo meter says its DAMN HOT (95F) out there. Might be time to try out the swimming pool we never use. The dog uses it more than anyone!!LOL
As for renting it out.........it would be to my buddies who are also heavy equipment mechanics. Gonna have my lawyer draw up a release of liability..........I guess. Just need to get one first. Which one??? No idea. Done w/ hammers though.............all done.
WOW!!! It's almost like you were there!! LOL Was that you lurking in the shadows of the dark night?? Yeah, by the time I got to the track pads.........finish line and my bed in sight..........I had run out of patience. YES, the bolt holes didn't line up!! Off by 1/2 the bolt diameter. NO............didn't take the time to mess w/ the links. Pulled out the blue tip track pad hole adjuster while muttering to myself........."4 tracks pads..........pack up........get out..........4 track pads..........pack up.........get out............come on........you can do it...........KEEP MOVING!!! DON'T STOP!!! DON'T THINK ABOUT IT!! JUST DO IT!! LETS GO FARRELL!! MOVE WITH A PURPOSE!! "(my old sergeants voice in my ear).
And if someone asked me to moneky w/ a PC1000 track...........hard pass, thank you for asking!!
So.........what are your thoughts on keeping the links from getting squished together?? I've thought about........after this last debacle........making a jig with a spacer to keep the links in place while they get squished.
Also wondered if 100 tons is enough or should go w/ a 150T unit. And the debate on C press or Tie Rod rages in my mind daily. What thoughts, good sire; on Tie rod versus C press??
Just in from putting a Hiab knuckle boom back together again on a form truck. Started at 5am to beat the heat. Finished at noon..........thermo meter says its DAMN HOT (95F) out there. Might be time to try out the swimming pool we never use. The dog uses it more than anyone!!LOL
As for renting it out.........it would be to my buddies who are also heavy equipment mechanics. Gonna have my lawyer draw up a release of liability..........I guess. Just need to get one first. Which one??? No idea. Done w/ hammers though.............all done.
Monkeywithawrench
Senior Member
I don't owe money on anything. I buy everything with cash...........or I put it on the company credit card and pay that off the same month. I HATE OWING THE BANKS ANYTHING!! Right or wrong............thats my mentality. I don't buy toys ............if I'm going to buy something, then it needs to be useful and earn me money. I look at it this way............I could probably turn around and sell it a few years from now or whenever and not lose money. In fact, it would probably appreciate............based on the way commodities and tool and equipment prices are going. Just don't want to buy something and say.........Gee, I should have gone with the other system...........this one doesn't cover all my needs.
Febuary 2021 4x8 sheet of AR400 $627
Febuary 2022 4x8 1/2" of AR400 $1850.........WTF!!
And honestly............nobody knows how long any of us are going to be around. Maybe I'll keep going until I'm 70?? Maybe next week I'll say SCREW THIS!! I'M DONE!! COME ON HONEY...........we're moving to Maine (that ain't happening for 4 more years............kids need to finish high school........then ship them off to college). Maybe the dog and i will move to Maine..............NOW YOUR THINKING WITH YOUR DIPSTICK JIMMY!! LOL
A couple hundred million more dollars and I'll be taking the helicopter to the airport, to take the jet to the next airport, then take the helicopter from that airport out to the yacht crewed by the bikini clad babes.............with the dog. And all this turning wrenches crap will be behind me. THERE!! How's that for a plan??!!LOL
mitch504
Senior Member
1693TA
Senior Member
I find this an interesting thread as I've always done most everything with cash on the barrelhead and/or handshake agreement. I'm going from memory and copying a youtube video for mine. I have a double acting 100T hollow ram cylinder and some grade "8" acme thread rod with nuts for the bulk of the press. Press plates and drive pins are not yet made. I have the hydraulics capacity in the shop.
I've never worked on an excavator as they just weren't any kind of common when I was working on machines. 100T would push any pin I was around out of a dozer or loader frame so my question would be are excavator pins that much harder to push than a large dozer? I used to break track on a TD25B series with one of these fairly easily but the press wasn't mine and was shop property to use. Truck mounted hydraulics and a small "jib" crane which was truck mounted made it fairly easy.
I've never worked on an excavator as they just weren't any kind of common when I was working on machines. 100T would push any pin I was around out of a dozer or loader frame so my question would be are excavator pins that much harder to push than a large dozer? I used to break track on a TD25B series with one of these fairly easily but the press wasn't mine and was shop property to use. Truck mounted hydraulics and a small "jib" crane which was truck mounted made it fairly easy.
John C.
Senior Member
I wouldn't have stayed in the dark if I were there. I know your pain and would have lent a hand or run away "depending on your greeting."
We stopped trying to push regular pins in for broken ones. If you look at a track press for turning pins and bushings you will see that they only press on one side of the link at a time into a middle anvil. Once you see that you can understand why you can't press a standard pin all the way through from one side to the other. For the spacing the dealer made up some thick plates that they bolt onto the links using the bolt holes to keep the spread just right so the pads could be installed. For the PC1000 machines I cut a piece of shelby tubing to fit around the bushing for a spacer. It was less to carry in the track press box.
I prefer the C frame press for the machines smaller than a D8K size track. Once you get into the D9 size and up you need the bigger press if you are going to try fixing broken pins. I got to where I wouldn't fix those any more. Just tell the customer I would install a new set of tracks and sprockets anytime he had them on site. The biggest problem I've had with that press was the spacers that go on the end of the C frame. They always got mashed up because someone would use the wrong size or use them for something else or they would get lost or someone would beat on them with a hammer and so on and so on. I did like the reach rods on the 200 ton unit as there were four of them. I could balance the cylinder on the chains and drop the hook on the crane and then pick up the push plate and position it on the rods. It was all a pain to do but no other way to do it.
Having the press set is a lot more professional looking to your customers but I can't say just how long the pay back period would be. Years ago one of my colleagues asked the same question of me and we broke it down. Was about ten years to payback plus the maintenance on the press for the dents and dings on the set pieces and the fact that the pumps out at that time would get to 10,000 PSI about a dozen times and then drop off till you had to fight getting things pressed. They usually ended up only getting to about 8,500 PSI which was marginal for pushing a high drive pin back then. The business he had back then would only see less than half a dozen uses a year. Just didn't pencil out.
We stopped trying to push regular pins in for broken ones. If you look at a track press for turning pins and bushings you will see that they only press on one side of the link at a time into a middle anvil. Once you see that you can understand why you can't press a standard pin all the way through from one side to the other. For the spacing the dealer made up some thick plates that they bolt onto the links using the bolt holes to keep the spread just right so the pads could be installed. For the PC1000 machines I cut a piece of shelby tubing to fit around the bushing for a spacer. It was less to carry in the track press box.
I prefer the C frame press for the machines smaller than a D8K size track. Once you get into the D9 size and up you need the bigger press if you are going to try fixing broken pins. I got to where I wouldn't fix those any more. Just tell the customer I would install a new set of tracks and sprockets anytime he had them on site. The biggest problem I've had with that press was the spacers that go on the end of the C frame. They always got mashed up because someone would use the wrong size or use them for something else or they would get lost or someone would beat on them with a hammer and so on and so on. I did like the reach rods on the 200 ton unit as there were four of them. I could balance the cylinder on the chains and drop the hook on the crane and then pick up the push plate and position it on the rods. It was all a pain to do but no other way to do it.
Having the press set is a lot more professional looking to your customers but I can't say just how long the pay back period would be. Years ago one of my colleagues asked the same question of me and we broke it down. Was about ten years to payback plus the maintenance on the press for the dents and dings on the set pieces and the fact that the pumps out at that time would get to 10,000 PSI about a dozen times and then drop off till you had to fight getting things pressed. They usually ended up only getting to about 8,500 PSI which was marginal for pushing a high drive pin back then. The business he had back then would only see less than half a dozen uses a year. Just didn't pencil out.
tctractors
Senior Member
I feel if you are up to cutting slots in plates to make the pad fit you need to really think about the task as all you are doing is damaging someones equipment, the cylinders I use are 105 ton and 74 ton standard CAT Service press items, I do have a 200 Ton hollow cylinder for nasty jobs, there is a trick you can do so when you press up the pin it keeps the link spacing correct to always fit the pad, I have a large range of dummy pins up to 63mm that make things very easy and a load of press head collars to fit from a Fiat FL4 pin up to the largest pin I need to press in at 63 mm, i also have short dummy plates that I can bolt to the links to retain the bolt spacing, I don't use these very often as I like to think I can do things faster with the trick, the 2 Tie rods are still in the CAT tool book and work well , I would think hard about blowing big coins on something that looks an animal to mess with, I have posted plenty of pictures of pin pressing and know how to make it pay, the secret would be do the job yourself with your own kit, let no one hire it or go near it and you have a Market to yourself, if they want a pin pressed they come to you only, the difference in pin length and Diameter due to who's made the chain will also get you struggling, so always check the pin is the correct spec before getting any kit out, also always get the Equipment owners to supply all the hardware then you cannot get in the wrong, I have about 2 ton's of press tooling so I get plenty of Rum jobs, sadly I am at the end of my time now and have already cut back to having Sunday afternoon off 2 times a month. tctractors
Monkeywithawrench
Senior Member
Sunday afternoons 2 times a month off..........my wife would never let me get away with that. Had a blow up a few months ago. Said I was working too much. She has work for me here AT THE HOUSE!!! LOL
So the tracks pads were folded, bent, and mutilated. One of them was cracked already. Had to play mix and match to get them to go back on........I didn't label which pad came from where. They wouldn't go back on unless they were in the proper order. And I completely understand where your coming from and I agree with you. Tired, out of patience, should have said screw it, packed up and came back in the morning when dark hit..............but he needed his machine up and running for first thing, blah, blah, blah...........
I can imagine you have 2 tons or more of fun little items for your presses. I've perused a bunch of your pictures...........very interesting. Wish you lived closer so I could learn some of your secrets. Love to learn new things..............but don't love learning the hard way. My uncle, who taught me how to run crawler cranes; used to say "Experience maketh a teacher." and "Sometimes education is expensive......." after you screwed something up and had to repair or replace it.
So in your opinion..............100 tons is good size?? Don't plan on attacking D8's or D9's. CAT 336 is maybe the biggest excavator I will probably attack.