Cat Oil Comparison

[alaskaforby4]

I've traveled once again down the oil comparison hole. Hoping someone smarter than I can shed some light
on what it is I'm looking at. We primarily use Chevron Delo products as it is readily available in our area and has treated us well over the years. We have several pieces of branded iron and can't readily get every manufactures name brand oil type. So we have a list and a cross reference for what machine takes what,where.

Currently we are replacing rear axle & trans oil on a 966D Loader
According to the Cat Fluid Selector its Trans is TDTO 30 & Axle is TDTO 50
http://www.catfluidselector.com/us/..._incl_backhoes/966d_wheeled_loaders_EFt8Pe7pp

The book calls for 80w-90 in axle and a 15-40 for trans

Our work range is from 0*F to 75*F
These specs have changed quite a bit from what the book states. I can match up the trans but the 80-90 has changed to a 50? this is where I'm looking for some understanding on the definitions.

Chevron Delo to CAT oil Crossover
https://www.chevronlubricants.com/c.../CAT Komatsu CVX Product Recommendations.pdf
Cat Spec oil
https://www.petersoncat.com/sites/cat/files/downloads/Cat TDTO.pdf
Delo Torqforce oil
https://shop.sclubricants.com/pub/media/pds/chevron/Delo-TorqForce-SAE-30-Technical-Datasheet.pdf
Delo 80W-90 Oil
https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=76979&docFormat=PDF

What is the important part I should be looking for in a fluid?
What is the kinematic viscosity?
Viscosity index?

Thanks in advance for the knowledge!

 

[Bluox]

My first thought would be use what you've been using in it.
Or use what you use in something else you have rather than stock an oil just for one machine.
So if you use 50 in another machine go for it.
In real life drive train 50 is the same as 80-90 as far as old Cat finals go.
Bob

 

[alaskaforby4]

We picked this machine up this year and am currently running through all the fluids and filters. In our 966c we run an EP-5 80-90 in the finals. I dont see any gear related literature for the TDTO-50 as far as Extreme pressure rating. Seems the testing standards are all over the place. They may do the same test, but one will use a weight percentage and another one will use a different measurement. These are the best i could find showing comparison.
Delo 80w90 (Cat TODO 50)
Pour point -33 (-12)
Kinetic viscosity cst @ 40* - 140 (198)
Kinetic Viscosity cst @ 100c* - 14.2 (17.6)
Viscosity index 99 (95)
Zinc - .5 (.127)
I couldn't find following tests for Cat, onlv for Delo
4 ball wear test .66
Brookfield test cp 120,000
Calcium 62
Copper corrosion 1b

Not really sure what the "more important" one to follow is here.
Pricing for 80-90 and TDTO 50 is the exact same @ $101 per 5/gal
Im leaning towards the 80-90 for the information im able to find

 

[John C.]

I don’t remember Cat ever calling for EP oils in axles and final drives. I have used them in A and B wheel loaders with no problems but they had external brakes. I’ve always stayed with the maker’s spec when there were internal wet disk brakes.

 

[alaskaforby4]

That is a good point, these are still the external drum air brakes on the C and D. Our H has the internal hydraulic. Not sure when they made the switch, probably when they got away from air.
Ideally I would just go to Cat for everything, unfortunately cost does play a role.
I do like to change oils on a more frequent basis to be able to inspect things, I think this is important on non-filtered areas such as the finals.

 

[Bluox]

That is a good point, these are still the external drum air brakes on the C and D. Our H has the internal hydraulic. Not sure when they made the switch, probably when they got away from air.
Ideally I would just go to Cat for everything, unfortunately cost does play a role.
I do like to change oils on a more frequent basis to be able to inspect things, I think this is important on non-filtered areas such as the finals.

You can smell 90w oil the 50 don't have that wonderful aroma .
Cat still uses 90 in some machine finals.
Chevron oil is as good as Cat oil.
Your finals should have magnetic plugs so when you check them you check for swarf.
Bob

 

[John C.]

I hadn’t seen a mag on the inside of cat plug in years. Cat branded oil at the local dealer came out of Chevron labeled drums into the bulk tanks. The last magnetic plugs I regularly see are out of Komatsu brands.

 

[Bluox]

We are talking about a 35? year old machine that's why I said should have mag plugs and if it doesn't Cat still sells them.
Bob

 

[alaskaforby4]

Nige mentioned he saw some literature about the GL-5 in 80-90 that could cause some of the rubber in the duo cone seals to deteriorate. Most likely not going to happen in this older machine, but makes you wonder why they switched.

This Torqforce 50 looks to be the same as the TDTO-50

Cat-
https://www.petersoncat.com/sites/cat/files/downloads/Cat TDTO.pdf
Delo-
https://shop.sclubricants.com/pub/media/pds/chevron/Delo-TorqForce-SAE-30-Technical-Datasheet.pdf

I guess Im not getting what the numbers are meaning, its been mentioned that the
50w is the same thickness as the 80-90? I thought it was a SAE-ISO thing, but SAE 50w would be up there, like 220 ISO. How is that 50w and 80w-90 are comparable?

 

[Nige]

The issue with Toric Rings was with much newer machinery and all of the axles in question had wet multi-disc internal brakes.

I would say that in the case of your 966D with external drum brakes if the O&M Manual specifies the use of an EP gear oil there is no reason why you cant use one. That is of course provided that the O&M is the correct one applicable to your machine Serial Number. EDIT - the online O&M must be newer than your paper one. It shows TO-2 for the axles/differentials. That would now be TO-4.

50w is the same thickness as the 80-90? I thought it was a SAE-ISO thing, but SAE 50w would be up there, like 220 ISO. How is that 50w and 80w-90 are comparable?

Two different viscosity scales. The SAE 50 (not 50W, there is no such thing) is measured on the SAE Crankcase viscosity scale. The 80W/90 is measured on the SAE Gear Oil viscosity scale. As Bob mentioned they are pretty much the same in terms of viscosity at operating temperature.

 

[Bluox]

The issue with Toric Rings was with much newer machinery and all of the axles in question had wet multi-disc internal brakes.

I would say that in the case of your 966D with external drum brakes if the O&M Manual specifies the use of an EP gear oil there is no reason why you cant use one. That is of course provided that the O&M is the correct one applicable to your machine Serial Number. EDIT - the online O&M must be newer than your paper one. It shows TO-2 for the axles/differentials. That would now be TO-4.
Two different viscosity scales. The SAE 50 (not 50W, there is no such thing) is measured on the SAE Crankcase viscosity scale. The 80W/90 is measured on the SAE Gear Oil viscosity scale. As Bob mentioned they are pretty much the same in terms of viscosity at operating temperature.

View attachment 249568

But oh yes there is a 50W oil ,it is a full synthetic gear oil used in manual transmissions.
Bob

 

[alaskaforby4]

The issue with Toric Rings was with much newer machinery and all of the axles in question had wet multi-disc internal brakes.

I would say that in the case of your 966D with external drum brakes if the O&M Manual specifies the use of an EP gear oil there is no reason why you cant use one. That is of course provided that the O&M is the correct one applicable to your machine Serial Number. EDIT - the online O&M must be newer than your paper one. It shows TO-2 for the axles/differentials. That would now be TO-4.
Two different viscosity scales. The SAE 50 (not 50W, there is no such thing) is measured on the SAE Crankcase viscosity scale. The 80W/90 is measured on the SAE Gear Oil viscosity scale. As Bob mentioned they are pretty much the same in terms of viscosity at operating temperature.

View attachment 249568

Excellent, thank you for explaining this, quite helpful.
Its ridiculous I've used something my entire adult life without understanding what it actually means!

So for the term "80w90" is it a range from 80 to 90, or?
I notice the first number always carries the "w"

 

[Nige]

So for the term "80w90" is it a range from 80 to 90, or?
I notice the first number always carries the "w"

https://services.totalenergies.uk/differences-gear-oil-grades

"Multigrade SAE gear oil grades include two numbers separated by a ‘W’ (e.g. 75W140) with the initial number before the ‘W’ indicating oil performance at 0°C and the number after showing the performance at 100°C."

 

[alaskaforby4]

https://services.totalenergies.uk/differences-gear-oil-grades

"Multigrade SAE gear oil grades include two numbers separated by a ‘W’ (e.g. 75W140) with the initial number before the ‘W’ indicating oil performance at 0°C and the number after showing the performance at 100°C."

That is very interesting. I would think "performance (at 0 and 100)" Would be referring to the Kinematic Viscosity scale, as most oils seem to list this prominently. But then 80w90 would be off the chart there. Do you know what type of performance test the are referring to?

 

[Tyler d4c]

But oh yes there is a 50W oil ,it is a full synthetic gear oil used in manual transmissions.
Bob

And its like 185 dollars a pail too.