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Wheel Loader Problem...

Discussion in 'Wheel Loaders' started by PAPS Landscape, Sep 9, 2007.

  1. PAPS Landscape

    PAPS Landscape Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
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    13
    I have an older International wheel loader... when we start the machine up and put it in forward or reverse..hit the gas, the machine struggles to move, you have to race the motor to get it to move, then when it moves, its slow, sometimes stops moving.. HOWEVER.. when we let the machine warm up like 10-15 minutes, throw it in forward or reverse... it runs perfect.. no problems at all???? what can it be? is the trans fluid thick and gummy and needs to get hot to thin out? we already drained all the hydraulic fluid and replaced.. about 25 gallons.. any help would be appreciated...
     
  2. DirectTech

    DirectTech Well-Known Member

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    sounds to me like you may want to drain the fluid and change the filter, and check for any flakes, also if the oil smells burnt then you are in trouble, but what it sounds like is that you are not building any pressure for your clutches.
     
  3. Steve Frazier

    Steve Frazier Founder

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    You may have a leak in the supply line to the transmission pump. It sounds like the oil is draining back and the pump is starving on start up. After some time, the pump primes itself and works as it normally should.
     
  4. steve931

    steve931 Active Member

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    Steve931

    The hydraulic and transmission take two different types of fluid.Check with your :usa :usa nearest dealer and be sure you change your trans. filter and clean any straniers it my have.
     
  5. surfer-joe

    surfer-joe Senior Member

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    You may have some seals and other internal parts that have to expand with heated oil before they seal properly. Had this problem on early Cat D9's and 10's. Once they warmed up, they were good to go.

    I've seen this with oil thickened by very cold weather as well. Takes a bit for the oil to warm up and flow freely, thus sealing properly. Sometimes the pump throws all the tranny oil into the upper case and the pump then starves (cavitates) for a few moments. This is because that cold oil isn't warmed up enough to flow quickly back into the sump. If the sump screen is real fine mesh, it may block cold thickened oil from being sucked up into the pump.

    Other problems may be caused by excessive wear and low spring tension in poppet and other valves.

    Good Luck!
     
  6. welderjay

    welderjay New Member

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    Sep 11, 2007
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    Location:
    olympia wa.
    I have a cat 950 loader that seams to have this problem when it is warm or has been ran for awile. When you disengage the parking brake then put it in for. or rev. it is sluggish to get moving. any suggestions. thanks
     
  7. surfer-joe

    surfer-joe Senior Member

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    The 950 may have a worn pump, or the P1/P2 pressures may be low due to weak springs or poppets and slugs in the transmission shift valve stack. So, assuming your oil looks good and the filter & the tranny magnetic screen don't show any signs of a major problem in the form of excessive seal material or fragments and steel or clutch debris, what you need to do is test the P1/P2 pressures and see if they are within spec. If they are, and pump main pressure is OK, then your problem is likely due to normal wear on the seal rings for the forward/reverse clutches.

    One other thing is the viscosity of the oil you are using in the tranny. If you are using 10wt., then as I mentioned before, it may take some warming up first before the seals and other thingies expand and seal properly. You might try some 30wt,, and see how that does. Some folks use 15W30 or 15W40 in their trans, but I do not recommend it. It's more expensive and the tranny doesn't need a multi-vis oil in most cases, unless you are working in a cold climate.

    If you are already using 30wt., the same problem may exist, only it's the oil that needs to warm up along with the sealing parts. This will more likely cause the trouble in the valve stack. On the other hand, worn slugs, poppets, and valve seats can cause this too. The P1/P2 tests will help to pinpoint this area.

    Sometimes, in the Cat clutches that I've worked on, you see a buildup of debris in the seal ring at the very bottom of the piston and housing, meaning as the trans is standing upright, this would be the bottom of the piston as it sits in the bore. Quite often this results in a groove being worn in that spot and it will leak pressure untill things warm up and the cavity get fully pressurized after all the voids are filled. The seal gets badly worn too from all the dirt and stuff and once it's gone, it has to be replaced, no easy job I'm sorry to say.

    Hope this helps. Good Luck!
     
  8. Countryboy

    Countryboy Senior Member

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    Welcome to HEF welderjay! :drinkup
     
  9. welderjay

    welderjay New Member

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    Thanks for the warm reception,. I really appreciate all the response and knowledge. Back to my sweet heart of a 950 my front brakes are not working any hints? this machine is probably an early 70s machine but I am now using it as a personal machine. any response is greatly appreciated. this is my other toy or "machine" thanks JAY
     

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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2007
  10. Countryboy

    Countryboy Senior Member

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    To bad you live in WA, Jay........You might've been getting some business to make another one of them bumpers. :wink2

    Thats a sharp looking fo' wheeler you got there. The fab work makes it look even better. :thumbsup
     
  11. CascadeScaper

    CascadeScaper Senior Member

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    Kinda off topic, but I'm in Lynnwood and may need a headache rack pretty soon for my pickup. Do you/have you/will you build a headache rack similar to what ProTech makes? Just curious. Nice lookin quad, I miss my days of buzzing around eastern WA on dirt bikes and quads as a kid.
     
  12. wrenchbender

    wrenchbender Senior Member

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    Belton SC
    Welcome welderjay, And I agree with Countryboy & CascadeScaper on your four wheeler that is some fine looking fab work very sharp.
    Ok about your front brakes I assume they are air over hyd. If this is the case have you checked the fluid in the M/C and or air supply to the actuators. If you have already checked these things problem maybe in wheel assys.
     
  13. welderjay

    welderjay New Member

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    Location:
    olympia wa.
    Hi guys thanks for the praise on the fab work. That is primarily what I do lots of stainless and aluminum work. Atv frame repair and adaptions. I will check the basics on my brakes this weekend. It is air over hydraulic. thanks for the hints. jay
     
  14. Rusted

    Rusted Well-Known Member

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    welderjay a serial number would help here, but in the meantime...what type of transmission controls does your 950 have?. The early ones had a fwd/rev lever on the steering column with 1st and 2nd gear alongside the left of the seat, along with a high/low range lever, they later changed to the single twist grip control. If yours is the early type, make sure you hold the speedshift lever back in 2nd gear position after starting when cold as they can slide forward and be in no mans land, the problem goes away after the oil warms a little.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2007
  15. Rusted

    Rusted Well-Known Member

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    whoops!...just re read your post and you say it happens after it warms up, so disregard my last post.