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Welding D11 ripper shank
- Thread starter bigway43
- Start date
Nige
Senior Member
There is a Cat Special Instruction SEHS7888 for welding a new "nose piece" to a ripper shank, because that's usually where they break off or wear out if the ripper tip is allowed to wear right down. I would guess that you could use the same welding procedure on a break further up the shank although in that location the tension & compression stresses would be higher. It would need a lot of preparation and a really top class welder to nail it back together IMO.
Give me an e-mail address and I'll mail a copy to you.
Any ideas from the fracture face why it broke..? Not through a pin hole was it..? If it was then don't waste your time trying to repair it.
Give me an e-mail address and I'll mail a copy to you.
Any ideas from the fracture face why it broke..? Not through a pin hole was it..? If it was then don't waste your time trying to repair it.
Nige
Senior Member
you have mail. If you like send me some photos of the fracture and I'll see if I can figure out where the failure started
HI Nige, could i have that procedure to please, dont have one to do, but you never know when!!
cps.aiden@gmail.com thanks
cps.aiden@gmail.com thanks
John C.
Senior Member
I've done at least a dozen D9, D8 and Komatsu D375 shanks and the operation is not real complicated. The hardest part is the preparation.
We always used a torch to cut out the broken parts and then V both sides leaving about a quarter inch in the center to butt up both pieces. I then ground both sides smooth taking out all the torch grooves. I'd gap the pieces with a piece of eighth inch welding rod with the flux knocked off and then tach weld the pieces together making sure they were straight. Rosebud time next and heat the entire shank to over 300 degrees. We used 3/16" 7018 on the smaller shanks and 11018 on the big boys. Wire feeds were more expensive than we could afford back then and I didn't trust them to hold as well anyway.
At any rate after making the first pass on the one side I turned the shank over and air arced out the back side down to the first pass weld. Used the grinder to clean it up and then heated the shank back over 300. Lay in two passes on that side and turn the thing over. I ran fillet welds and checked how the tip would pull each time and turned the thing over to pull it back. When I got done with the welding I took the rosebud and heated the shank up to around 500 degrees and packed it in welding blankets and let it cool over night. The process always took at least eight hours and usually ten when other things got in the way.
Those old Komatsu shanks would last a couple of months of straight ripping until the stress hardening would snap them and we would start all over again. I never had a D8 or D9 shank snap. The operators would generally lose a tooth and then grind the nose back enough that the shank wouldn't hold a new tooth anymore.
We always used a torch to cut out the broken parts and then V both sides leaving about a quarter inch in the center to butt up both pieces. I then ground both sides smooth taking out all the torch grooves. I'd gap the pieces with a piece of eighth inch welding rod with the flux knocked off and then tach weld the pieces together making sure they were straight. Rosebud time next and heat the entire shank to over 300 degrees. We used 3/16" 7018 on the smaller shanks and 11018 on the big boys. Wire feeds were more expensive than we could afford back then and I didn't trust them to hold as well anyway.
At any rate after making the first pass on the one side I turned the shank over and air arced out the back side down to the first pass weld. Used the grinder to clean it up and then heated the shank back over 300. Lay in two passes on that side and turn the thing over. I ran fillet welds and checked how the tip would pull each time and turned the thing over to pull it back. When I got done with the welding I took the rosebud and heated the shank up to around 500 degrees and packed it in welding blankets and let it cool over night. The process always took at least eight hours and usually ten when other things got in the way.
Those old Komatsu shanks would last a couple of months of straight ripping until the stress hardening would snap them and we would start all over again. I never had a D8 or D9 shank snap. The operators would generally lose a tooth and then grind the nose back enough that the shank wouldn't hold a new tooth anymore.
Thanks for the tips, much appreciated. Can running beads of hard surfacing cause them to fail, and when you build up the tip should you heat them up after, and cool down slowly. We are ripping frozen ground and have a nasty wear rate.
Nige
Senior Member
In reply to John C. The recommendation is for 11018 on all large ripper shanks (D8 & up). Wire feeders mean that you don't have discontinuities within the length of the groove caused by stopping to change rods. Also you don't need an all-position wire because you have the shank laid flat so you can deposit even more metal per minute.
We used to install run-out tabs (often a piece of structural steel angle heated and formed to the same angle as the groove on both ends so that you could establish the arc and stop the weld actually outside the area of the repair weld and then remove them afterwards with a cutoff wheel.
Bigway, Not so much the hard surfacing per se, but you have to make sure that the hard surfacing does not introduce stress risers into the shank. That WILL cause it to fail, the root cause being the way the HS was applied, not the HS itself. Pre-heat and cool as per the recommendations in the document I sent to you, and keep the hard surfacing away from corners if you can avoid it.
We used to install run-out tabs (often a piece of structural steel angle heated and formed to the same angle as the groove on both ends so that you could establish the arc and stop the weld actually outside the area of the repair weld and then remove them afterwards with a cutoff wheel.
Bigway, Not so much the hard surfacing per se, but you have to make sure that the hard surfacing does not introduce stress risers into the shank. That WILL cause it to fail, the root cause being the way the HS was applied, not the HS itself. Pre-heat and cool as per the recommendations in the document I sent to you, and keep the hard surfacing away from corners if you can avoid it.
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John C.
Senior Member
The only shank we ever applied hard surface to broke within a week. We never used it again.
We used to get steel to build shanks out of called Astroloy. I don't know if the company even exists anymore but the steel worked real well.
We used to get steel to build shanks out of called Astroloy. I don't know if the company even exists anymore but the steel worked real well.
catman57022
New Member
Good day Nige. I'm new here and this information will certainly be needed for a project coming up this month. If still available could you please email me those guiselines? Thank you in advance. vmoore0406@gmail.com
Welder Dave
Senior Member
I just saw this thread. I have read that if you need to preheat to weld something or it's thick steel, you should preheat the same when you weld hardfacing on it. A lot of the higher alloy hardfacing will surface check to relief stress. These are small cracks across the hardfacing. They aren't flaws, they need to be there. If you just hardfaced a shank with no preheat, there is a higher likelihood of it breaking.
Skittlebomb
New Member
Nige would I be able to get the welding procedure for welding on a D10 ripper please, appreciate it
catchem85@hotmail.com
catchem85@hotmail.com
cherokee101
Well-Known Member
Sounds much like welding teeth on a hardened cutting edge.
gary808
Well-Known Member
Use to watch my old man weld up broken d9 shanks. He would v them out and clean then up. Then preheat them in his oven. Before he had the oven he would buy 20 bags of charcoal and let them sit in the fire for a while.
He would also pean the welds with a hammer to keep the pulling down.
Then back in the oven to get everything to the same temp so everything cools evenly and pulls even. If you skip the last part the welds will out pull the shank and i have seen welds just sit overnight and split open.
He would also pean the welds with a hammer to keep the pulling down.
Then back in the oven to get everything to the same temp so everything cools evenly and pulls even. If you skip the last part the welds will out pull the shank and i have seen welds just sit overnight and split open.
DMiller
Senior Member
Got to be part blacksmith.
John C.
Senior Member
I used to weld noses and quarter shanks on them all the time. Always beveled them to about a quarter inch of flat. Preheated to 250 to 350 degrees with a rose bud and then started the fillet welds. I always kept the inter-pass temp above 200. We used stick back then, couldn't afford a squirt gun. Would put a pass or two on one side and then flip the shank over and do a little more on the other side until the weld was even with the outside. You really had to watch the pull on it or the nose would turn to one side and the operators hated that. Then heated it up as hot as we could get it with a rose bud again and covered it in welding blankets and let it cool slow over night. I've had some shanks last a year of more of ripping sandstone and glacial till until someone would sink the shank in the ground with no tooth on the end, again!
I would have loved to have had an oven for them.
I would have loved to have had an oven for them.
Welder Dave
Senior Member
I think you're confused about what a fillet weld is. A fillet weld is generally on a corner where 2 pieces come together like the side of the bucket to the bottom. A butt joint would have a groove weld rather than a fillet weld. Done properly nothing wrong with stick welding. Most welders would prefer it over flux-core. Now if you had access to sub-arc would be a game changer but a little awkward on a ripper shank.
It took a long time before flux-core was allowed on pressure vessels. Remember working on a 2 1/2" thick vessel with a nozzle out the side. Vessel was grooved on the outside for full penetration so a pretty wide groove to be able to get to the bottom. Inside was welded first then back gouged from the outside. On top of filling that groove up a re-pad also 2 1/2" thick also had to go on and have full penetration so another wide bevel to fill. The re-pad was also cut in half with 2 more V grooves to fill up. A bit of a problem with the re-pad though. Someone made a mistake on the re-pad though. It was cut for a 24" nozzle and the nozzle was only 20". They decided to use it instead of having another one rolled. It took 2 1/2 shifts(day and night) to weld the nozzle and re-pad up all with stick. We used 2 large weed burner torches for preheat. Lots of 1/4" 7018 and it took a couple days to cool off.
It took a long time before flux-core was allowed on pressure vessels. Remember working on a 2 1/2" thick vessel with a nozzle out the side. Vessel was grooved on the outside for full penetration so a pretty wide groove to be able to get to the bottom. Inside was welded first then back gouged from the outside. On top of filling that groove up a re-pad also 2 1/2" thick also had to go on and have full penetration so another wide bevel to fill. The re-pad was also cut in half with 2 more V grooves to fill up. A bit of a problem with the re-pad though. Someone made a mistake on the re-pad though. It was cut for a 24" nozzle and the nozzle was only 20". They decided to use it instead of having another one rolled. It took 2 1/2 shifts(day and night) to weld the nozzle and re-pad up all with stick. We used 2 large weed burner torches for preheat. Lots of 1/4" 7018 and it took a couple days to cool off.
John C.
Senior Member
When I started welding a fillet weld was multiple passes stacked on top of each other. It had nothing to do with corners. Might be the difference between the states and Canada, eh.