tractor pans or scrapers which do you like better

[EZ TRBO]

I don't have alot of time around a number of different scrapers. We have our own 1970 JD 860 paddle wheel and for us it has worked great for years, for sure lots of breakdowns but that many moving parts over that many years its bound to happen. For a smaller company it was nice, go out with just that machine and fully strip an area of a project, kept your haul roads maintained, your stock pile sloped and wide enough and would be all ready to move the dozers in.

Only time I have really worked with a different type was with a TS-14, I ran circles around it, until we got to rock then he kept going and I had to find more clay. I enjoy running the self loaders(have been on our own 860, and rented 762's and 862's for bigger projects), nice to just do your own thing, haul your dirt and no one really bothered me.

No experince on the pans, but they were the thing on the dozers back in the day, and now with the AG type tractors. However, I am always told, don't by a full blown ag tractor, buy the ones that are built for industrial use, as ag is not built as heavy as industrial. Equipment World did a article on tractor/pan combos a few years ago. Nice advice, bout how the different companies are building AG LIKE tractors built just for the type of pulling a scraper demands.
Trbo

 

[Construct'O]

I agree i would wether put build my busniess on the 627 and 637 machine here where i live.To much mud.If i had those size job to do.Especially day in and out.

For short hauls and lots of room the tractor -pan thing might not be so bad.

For my little projects even the dozer with my hydraulic pull scraper works good.I use to have ag tractor for the power unit,plus also hydraulic unit on my dozer.That way i could use the hydrulic scraper either on the dozer or the tractor if need be.

We are talking soil conservation type work.Terrace,ponds,waterways and small building sites.I use a 14 struck, 16 yard heaped,Ashland scraper and a D6 dozer.:usa

 

[EZ TRBO]

I agree i would wether put build my busniess on the 627 and 637 machine here where i live.To much mud.If i had those size job to do.Especially day in and out.

For short hauls and lots of room the tractor -pan thing might not be so bad.

For my little projects even the dozer with my hydraulic pull scraper works good.I use to have ag tractor for the power unit,plus also hydraulic unit on my dozer.That way i could use the hydrulic scraper either on the dozer or the tractor if need be.

We are talking soil conservation type work.Terrace,ponds,waterways and small building sites.I use a 14 struck, 16 yard heaped,Ashland scraper and a D6 dozer.:usa

Bout the only difference in you and what we used to do is the location and you have said before, the trenching. Most times the 860 was all we needed for what we did. Add the 2 15C's and the 312 was bout perfect for us, oh yeah and the 773 Bobcat.

Trbo

 

[RollOver Pete]

I read somewhere that the cost per yard was less with a pull pan.
Weather it is true or not, I wouldn't know.
I've never been around or seen pull pans working.
I'd like to...
I'm sure they have their place.

 

[cletrac]

We have 2 Case IH 485 Quads with ATI tracks, 6 627G's, 2 627 F's, 4 615's,4 613's and 5 TS14's. Each has a different use. Don't use a 613 to dig a pond and a 627 to finish a Condo pad. The Quads work great on wet topsoil but a 627 works on a long haul with a good haul road.:deadhorse

 

[Deere9670]

The local construction company was working on a tollway extension by my house all summer and they had all kinds of scrapers running including cat challengers pulling double and even triple pull pans. The one thing I dident understand was how do you see your cut height on the second and third pans? And does the operator have like "a million levers" in the cab or hows does he control each pan? Can some one explain this to me?

 

[Turbo21835]

I read somewhere that the cost per yard was less with a pull pan.
Weather it is true or not, I wouldn't know.
I've never been around or seen pull pans working.
I'd like to...
I'm sure they have their place.

I cant see it happening. Our crew consisted of two Terex Ts14b, Cat D7H, Cat 815B, and Cat D5N. We would double haul as much as we could. On the good jobs, we could move topsoil at 89 cents a cyd. This covered the cost of the 14s and the 5 cleaning up and hitting the haul roads. Cut to fill at 96 cents a cyd. This covered the cost of the 14s, the 7 for push loading, and the 815 for compaction. The 5 would be billed half the day to topsoil, and the rest of the day was billed to fine grading. Most of the jobs were bid at $1.50 a cyd for topsoil, and around 2 bucks a cyd for cut to fill. Needless to say, when we asked for new seats on the scrapers, the company didnt think twice about taking care of us

 

[fensoncont.]

As far as the Ag. Tractors go on a cheaper costs per yard on the office end, I believe it. Keep in mind I don't work for a company and the only scraper I operated was a Deere 862B cutting subgrade for a driveway. The ag. tractors have a pretty low rate on them alone. The rate of the scrapers themselves there isn't much there, the life on the pan part isn't probably too bad, the tractor is where the life part of it struggles. I look at it as having no push dozer in the cut, here in Northwest Ohio we are on flat ground with fair soil. Most of our projects are highways with borrow pits and reservoirs, which don't make for bad dirt moving. I like to compare them to McAninch's scrapers but with a lower cost on the 'lead' machine.

I think the downside would be the money result and the condition of the machine after it's all said and done. Certain situations will acquire a dozer in the cut to help push load, which adds a hefty rate per hours, don't forget another operator. As I'm sure everyone knows dirt machines get beat pretty bad when your on a tight schedule and want to move a lot of dirt fast, the ag. tractors aren't originially built for rough work, there meant to pull disks, compactors, and farm.

It really tells me something though when Beaver Excavating and ES Wagner have went to these for some of there dirt crews.

Until I operate, supervise, bid, and count the money on both after the projects I will keep myself nuetral.

 

[JDOFMEMI]

..... The one thing I dident understand was how do you see your cut height on the second and third pans? And does the operator have like "a million levers" in the cab or hows does he control each pan? Can some one explain this to me?

The ones I have seen have the three traditional "levers" though they are little more than glorified toggle switches for electric over hydraulic operation, and then a diverter switch to change from the front pan to the back one, and easily adding a third.
With 2 or 3 pans, before coming into the cut, set each edge just off the ground (the rear ones have a rod sticking up that lets you "see" the height of the edge), then you load first the front, pull it up, switch, load the second, and switch again if you have a third.
Leave the control set to the back, and unload the reverse of loading (most times).
Deere, Volvo, Bell, and probably others have programmable automated loading and dumping functions, but I think they only work in nice consistent material. Of course that is the only place I think the pull pans work anyway, so I bet it is a good deal.

I demoed a Challenger MT865, with 2-17CY E-Ject pans, the same ones Cat now brands as theirs. We were in blow sand, and after a little practice, they would outwork anything else I have seen in those conditions.
I know the cans are too high in the pic, but not when I was running it!

 

[Neil D]

A lot of people are getting overly excited here lets not forget that different machines do some jobs better than others. The pull pans have their advantages mainly operating in light soils and sandy clays were they can load fast and from an owners perspective will pull more profit if you buy new and trade in after a short while. However I reckon 627's are a more stable business proposition-the higher purchase price is easily pulled back after few years work with out any worries about market fluctuations affecting residual values.

Neil

 

[Deere9670]

Nice cat and sweet pic's, thanks for clearing that up for me!

 

[Renfroe Grading]

Here is a scraper we recently built from a 621B. The D8N is a pull tractor we bought that was factory set up for that purpose.

 

[637slayer]

thats a nice shiny setup, i can almost smell the paint.

 

[Renfroe Grading]

Slow winter. we have painted a few up.

 

[637slayer]

along the side of the can i think i can read 621b right? then in fron of that it looks like it says something but i cant tell. i would have put renfroe grading somewhere on there, looks professional as is though.

 

[DPete]

Here is a scraper we recently built from a 621B. The D8N is a pull tractor we bought that was factory set up for that purpose.

Clean looking unit, I suppose the tractor has a higher gallon per minute hydraulic pump to run those big rams. I have a cat & can most people out here laugh at it until the going gets tough.

 

[Turbo21835]

In my opinion, a cat/can is a totally different set up from a tractor/pan. The cat/cans have their place. Short runs with heavy cuts and fills. They also prove their value when it comes to muddy jobs. Im sure they dont need to be pushed thru a cut, picked up by another dozer to push it thru the stock pile like we would with wheel scrapers in muddy conditions. The tractor/pan combos do have a place. Personally i happen to think its on the farm.

 

[fensoncont.]

Great point there Turbo, the cat/can comments sure demonstrate McAninch's technique. It's funny you mention pushin motor scrapers through the cut. When I watched Beaver that summer in Delphos on the reservoir they didn't get one complete cycle of (4) 631E's to unload through the fill, they were forced to utilize the D8L to push them through the fill.

On the other hand when I watched Anderzack Pitzen Construction, Inc. over the last summer oin the Van Wert Reservoir they were running (4) 621's at a time and I did not see them once push a scraper through the fill, hell they didn't even have a dozer in the fill area full time.

 

[385Diggin' Doug]

pullpans for stripping topsoil and light cuts. Cat Push/Pull type pans in any other application especially rock

I see you added a new Case slogan.
Try this one:

CASE

Couldn't
Afford
Serious
Equipment

 

[Renfroe Grading]

It says 621P the smaller print says "Renfroe Scraper Special"