To dozer or not to dozer

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . mitch504. I feel we may be talking at cross purposes and it is very hard to envisage the scale of the problem without pictures.

Reading back through the thread in the original post widows told us he had thousands of rootballs with multiple four inch stems on each. I could be wrong but it seems to me they may be cutting the stems off fourteen to twenty inches above the ground.

As you say it is extremely doubtful a skid could remove such a stump in five minutes . . . they certainly won't "pop out" if they are as I imagine.

In my opinion the most cost effective way of dealing with such stumps would be a one hundred and fifty hp dozer with a horizontal cutter bar fixed between the outer tines of a ripper, such a tractor will undercut the stump and take it out in second gear.

As has been mentioned by others it is still a major job to get rid of all the stumps and, in my experience it would be much easier to burn them with the top growth. I would suggest to widows he hold off on the burning until they have found a satisfactory method of dealing with the stump problem.

Cheers.

 

[8k bill]

Widows, IMO your better off doing it right and at least put a cutter bar through and cutting everything off at 6" to 8". ThenUsing your cheap labour to stick pick would give you ground that would be safe to put any tyned implement in.sounds like your soil is a sandy loam and a d6 would easily do it. All the best Bill

 

[Delmer]

My guess was that he was talking about medium sized trunks that had been cut, and sprouted multiple 4" stems.

I'd be using that cheap labor to limb the poles and stack them for future use. Buy a couple dozen solar panels, DC blowers, and 5' lengths of 3" round duct, and make myself some mini stump burners.

 

[td25c]

Yeah.. Stump grinder might also be an option . Grind down to needed depth & move on to the next one . Shaver MFG makes a 3 point grinder for use on a farm tractor. www.shavermfg.com/stump-grinders

This dealer in Denver , Colorado lists the model SHSC-50 at $7,056 www.beavervalleysupply.com/sectionb/shaversb.htm

 

[widows]

Yes, medium trunks with multiple 4" calipers growing. I will try to get some photos but its real jungle and most of the large trees were harvested years before we got there. If you walk up to the bush from the road you literally cannot step 5' into the bush without a panga. I like the idea of a horizontal cutter bar that Scrub mentioned. There is also mention of the US Banks not allowing international wires over 50k per month to leave the country. Has anyone heard that? I'm not sure how that effects us unless we attempt to purchase a Dozer there. Scrub, what did you think of the idea to lease? 15 per month. If all the bush is gone and you use the horizontal cutter how many acres a day would you say the dozer could do? Would you try to find a dozer here and ship and if so can we find a dozer for under 100k? Used machinery there, say a Cat D6 sells for 220k used and 340 new. Can we find a used machine that would do this project? Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[widows]

. Here's the first picture. Any large trees we had planned to leave.

 

[widows]

still trying to get a video of the stump.

 

[td25c]

That does look pretty thick in the pictures widows. Trees dont look that big for a dozer. Pretty amazed the 100 man crew can clear 10 acres a day just taking out the bush around the bigger trees. If I was going to buy a larger dozer for that job ....... Pretty hard to go wrong with an older Cat D7G. Very reliable and have stood the test of time. A guy could have alot of fun on that job with a Rome K/G blade www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=8941721

 

[widows]

last picture. I can't seem to get a video to attach. This is an old logging road I'm walking on otherwise you would get through.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . Thanks for pictures widows and I must say your country is not quite as I imagined . . . but incidentally I have been told that some of that red soil in Uganda will grow a four inch nail into a crowbar! (he grins)

You obviously realise that any comments here can only be very general in nature and, although you will probably find some of the techniques mentioned (by myself and others) confronting, unaffordable, or, at best, confusing and out of the question, they will all have been offered with the very best of intent.

One of things we probably don't understand are your climatic conditions.

Such country here in Queensland is generically called "vine scrub" and, in the old days in the high country behind Cairns (in far north) was hand slashed with cane knives and axes in during the first part of the dry season.

The fallen material was left in place forming a dense mat and allowed to dry out as long as possible. If they got the timing right it was burned just before "the wet". The land for the most part was being cleared for grazing and the intense fires that resulted from the mass of vegetation often resulted in country that could be sown to pasture.

Unused to fire, the rainforest species never recovered and the remaining stumps and logs rotted and disintegrated over the years.

I realise you don't have years but it seems to me that in your situation the employment of local labour is a cost effective option and I would imagine will assist in establishing good will and co-operation . . . there is nothing like a paid job when few such jobs exist.

If your hand clearing crews were to just slash and fall, would an initial burn with no heaping or stacking be an option? Such a procedure reduces the volume of material that needs to be handled and (possibly) provides the option of raking with agricultural tractors. I obviously don't know the scale at which you wish to operate the farming operation . . . that is to say, many smaller tractors or a couple of larger ones, it all makes a difference to methods.

An eighty to one hundred HP 4x4 tractor with a decent rake mounted to the loader frame is a fairly potent weapon and when a patch was finished could plow with a decent set of heavy off-sets that (I imagine) in that soil would pull out a lot of stumps and be pretty much impervious to damage. I am thinking Rome or Towner Armstrong style plows.

I have doubts about the effectiveness of chaining in country as shown beside the road. I small dense brush such as that it tends to slide up and over unless specially weighted into a "prickle chain" with sections of railway line welded to the links . . . clearly not an option.

The Dozer lease deal sounds a little strange, how many hours are you allowed per month?

The cutter barring will be expensive and probably say three acres an hour would be the best you could expect.

The between ripper tines cutter is at its best when on the back of a rake tractor and used intermittently for under cutting stumps that have been hit with the rake. In your country, undercutting relatively shallow I imagine any given tractor would pull a cutter wider than the tines and the equipment becomes more complex to fabricate . . . it is all a matter of trial and error and for your situation may be a little difficult to arrange.

Texas and New Zealand style roller choppers are another option that would work to establish a burn mat of vegetation but, as mentioned it all comes back to cost of acquiring/fabricating the equipment.

My thoughts here are a bit disjointed but it's coming up to daylight here and I really have to run. I find your project extremely interesting and would like to continue the conversation if you feel the random thoughts of myself and others here of value.

Cheers.

 

[buckfever]

When I looked at those pictures the fist thing that came to my mind was a hydro-ax. But I'm sure that's not a option so how about a high hp ctl with a brush hog and that stump popping attachment? I know when we do smaller land clearing jobs (say less the 10 acres ) we go in and knock down all the small stuff with a ct332 and a brush hog then knock down and burn all the larger trees.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . buckfever . I have heard in the U.S. there are very heavy duty "brush hogs" that are as I understand it a horizontal rotary mower with blades mounted on what in effect is a flywheel . . . a similar lighter duty version is called a "slasher" over here and is mainly used on grass and regrowth to about two inches diameter.

How heavy timber can your heavy duty units handle? They may be another option for some areas for, as you know the timber can change. I imagine the vegetation would be fairly soft and sappy and such a devise could be quite effective in places on the back of a 100HP tractor with a "four in one" on front . . . widows head will be spinning with all these strange ideas. (grin)

Cheers.

 

[CM1995]

There is also mention of the US Banks not allowing international wires over 50k per month to leave the country. Has anyone heard that?

The story has been traveling the internet but it looks to be just jacking the fees up on their customers.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/halahto...re-transfers-no-limits-on-withdrawals-either/

 

[ValleyFirewood]

I know I can't be the only one wondering how those folks are working for $5 a day?!

I have a hard time finding workers at $10/hr.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair. . .ValleyFirewood. I have no firsthand knowledge of the economy in widows region of Africa but going on my experiences in PNG there is every chance those folks will be seeing five dollars a day as quite reasonable pay.

Living where and how we do it is very difficult for us to get our heads around the way of native village life.

I lived in villages for several years, it cost little to live and my needs and wants were few. Truth be known, I found it quite appealing. I had a comfortable thatched hut, plenty of good tucker, and there always seemed to be a procession of pretty doe-eyed girls who were having trouble with their cassette-tapes and wondered if I could maybe "fixim'".

One of the biggest village expenses was batteries and they came in by box load carried twenty miles on women's heads.

Out of interest I think the minimum adult pay in Australia is around eighteen dollars per hour.

Cheers.

 

[CM1995]

I know I can't be the only one wondering how those folks are working for $5 a day?!

I have a hard time finding workers at $10/hr.

Different economic system, cost of living and standard of living. In my area I don't really want someone that is willing to work for $10 per hour...

 

[buckfever]

Same thing here CM. Our green laborers start at 14 an hour and get a review ( and raise if they qualify) after 6 months with a option of health insurance. The shame of it is that with overtime a man can make 40k plus working for use and it is still hard to find good workers.

SCRUB the hydro-ax looks like a rubber-tire loader on steriods with a mower that will take upto 4" hardwood timber all day long. The smaller ones on say a 100 hp CTL are just like you said, good for thick brush and smaller 2" trees. But they sure do beat the hell out of a machete and pitch fork.

 

[CM1995]

Let me clarify my $10 per hour statement - I wouldn't want an equipment operator that would work for $10 per hour. I run a small crew and we double and triple duty pretty much everything from silt fence, grouting manholes, running equipment, shoveling, etc. I don't have any general laborers on board but when the time comes and the work load gets better, I would start green laborers out at $10-11 per hour and go from there.

It gets back to the local economy and cost of living, I would assume your cost of living is higher in PA than AL but it seems like we're not that far off.

 

[buckfever]

We do the same thing CM. The longer you work for us the more we will teach you and the more you can make. We don't hire dedicated laborers or operators either. Everyone has to be willing to do what's nessasary to get the job done. If that means your pushing a wheel-burro or working a shovel that's what has to be done.

 

[Dozerboy]

Same thing here CM. Our green laborers start at 14 an hour and get a review ( and raise if they qualify) after 6 months with a option of health insurance. The shame of it is that with overtime a man can make 40k plus working for use and it is still hard to find good workers.

SCRUB the hydro-ax looks like a rubber-tire loader on steriods with a mower that will take upto 4" hardwood timber all day long. The smaller ones on say a 100 hp CTL are just like you said, good for thick brush and smaller 2" trees. But they sure do beat the hell out of a machete and pitch fork.

A smaller HydroAx is good for anything under 6" and even a few 6"s is ok. The problem with a Hydro is there a bit to maintain and what to do with the chips? There will be a lot too. You can rake them up ok, but if you get them up before a rain it takes for ever to dry out.

I like a dozer myself. I don't know you really need a big one. A few d4s would work that just fine.