the old 580B Question

[phil4pres]

Yeah looks like it been repainted before at tool rental company they might've just stuck the stickers on the front not really sure

 

[phil4pres]

Thanks metalman55 , front bucket seems really big on it ( good thing) and the boom on the back seems really big for this size of tractor , looks to big . Guess that's why my frame was broke into when I got it , inside right rear tire was broke slap into n some fine citizen tried to weld back without plateing it anywhere. Broke right beside where arm for hoe bolts on frame. So me n friend cleaned up n broke out my grandpaws old cracker box( hadn't been used in prob 15 yrs since before he past) n still had old rod in it where he was welding with it. That ol cracker box burn just as good as any new one..

 

[phil4pres]

Only thing I could come up with was piece I beam. That would hold top n side n make more sturdy.. I know prob not right thing use but it worked for me .plus u have little room on inside with other bar running up beside it.. still thinking bout cutting top off but I think it only makes it stronger.. also those nuts u see n pic ( new one ) if u ever have take those off start soaking bout week ahead time.. 3 hrs later broke 2 ft pipe wrench, bloody knucks n several choice words I ended up taking hammer n chisel n cutting it into..

 

[phil4pres]

As previously mentioned in this thread, no oil should be in the starter. Converter housing , yes.

Guy who rebuilt starter said he didn't know where get gasket but wants me bring to him so he look at it . Any idea where find one if he can't

 

[phil4pres]

Guy who rebuilt starter said he didn't know where get gasket but wants me bring to him so he look at it . Any idea where find one if he can't

And if it is not the original starter is there anyway to put a gasket to keep it from leaking??

 

[phil4pres]

Juskatla here is pic was talking bout ..

 

[Juskatla]

Full oil changes flush and filters in order judging from the look of the oil in the rear end. The tube that we were discussing would have been located up in the right hand corner of the transmission. In the picture, it looks like some goop has been applied to that area, It may be OK but make sure its sealed to prevent fluid transfer between the shuttle and the gear box. High level in the rear end would contribute to leaking seals and brake contamination. In your picture, the level in the rear end looks too high.

Here is the picture of the tube on my machine before I replaced the cap and clamp. I found bits of both the plastic cap and the spring steel clamp spread throughout the transmission, including in the lube passageways around the sides of the castings.

 

[Juskatla]

Another thing you should be aware of is that the transmission gearbox and the rear end share a common oil and the passages in the bottom of the casting between the two allow the levels to equalize between the two. Looks like yours may be plugged up if the gear box is empty and the rear end is full. Shuttle is completely separate and uses different fluid, so don't be tempted to use the same in all.

 

[phil4pres]

Ok thanks jusk , never seen one on here caped off like that before, had me worried..will drain n see what n bottom of them n change fluid n filter n check all gears but from top look n good shape.. but never know.. does seem whatever they plugged with holding pretty good..rear box was little over full , addsome other day to both them cause felt like every time put n reverse would make whining sound like fluid was low .. n use 80/90 tch for rear ended n gear box ??thanks for your time taking a lot stuff back off it again n hopefully won't have do it for while.. but everybody needs practice .. lol

 

[Juskatla]

Be cautious about overfilling the transmission and differential case. Overfilling can lead to seal leaks and in the rear, oiled brakes. The Operators Instruction Manual for the Case 480/580 Series Construction King Wheel Tractors show the quantity for both trans and rear end as using 17 quarts of SAE - 90W multi purpose gear oil. Today a quality gear oil would meet or exceed that spec. The torque tube with shuttle or hydraulic reservoir calls for 16 quarts of TCH. Today, that can be replaced with Hytran Ulltra or similar. If you decide on something less expensive, make sure the specs are the same. It has been recommended on here not to use regular hydraulic oil in the power shuttle torque tube. On mine, I chose to stay with Hytran Ultra once TCH was no longer available and have not had issues with the shuttle due to oil. Other problems that I fixed were not oil related.

The Service Manual and the Parts Catalogue are invaluable to help with repairs and understanding how each piece works. I have both and the Operators Instruction Manual for both the tractor and the Loader Backhoe. If you don't have access to manuals and need specific portions, I will try to post them up for you and to benefit anyone else working on the same issue now or in the future. Pictures are always good.

 

[phil4pres]

Thanks jusk , like I was telling pumpguy other day I been building n remodeling for bout 20 yrs for myself , n never found group like yaw that take time to help ( the next person out ) like yaw do .. it is something... and I understand on overfilling, when I got it clutch( or left petal) wouldn't come all way back up n sprayed lil wd40 on it n worked it week or so n it come all way back up without having hook foot on it n brakes were not there when first started using it but they seem work a lot better now .. don't know why but figured from machine setting awhile .. the last couple weeks noticed left rear wheel damp on inside, prob from over filling but brakes grab still n will lock up n second gear ..

 

[phil4pres]

Also when I got her had several issues with brackets hold bucket on boom .. found much cheaper do it yourself than buy even used one ,cut bent rails off sides n form them to bottom n tack n weld them up ( with cracker box)..but 2 other that angel back. Boom where bad well one was egg shaped n look for 2 weeks try find something fit and machine shop was wanting 250 just round whole back out .. found collars at local place n town that would nearly fit right n .. with lil work they slide n .. tack them n pin slid right n with lil work .. got big one n pic just in case had weld to outside but didn't need it but put 2 smaller ones n hole .. n all 3 of them cost me a whole $11.00 ..

 

[Juskatla]

The oil on the rear wheel could be a leaking seal at the outer end of the axle housing. There should be a grease nipple located just inside the end of the axle and it lubes the bearing. If the seal is leaking, you will get some drip like you show in your picture. Other than the drips and stain, its not likely a real problem since it is all slow turning. You could fix it when you get all the other issues done or wait 20 yrs like I did. At the inner end of that axle tube, where it connects to the rear end casting, there is also another bearing and seal. If that seal is leaking, eventually you will have gear oil at the outer end. If the rear end case is overfull of oil, it will aggravate the problem. When I pulled mine all apart, I found the inner seal was leaking a little and a pool of gear oil in the bottom of the axle tube. I pulled both axles, inspected the bearings and replace both the inner and outer seals along with the large O ring on both sides. In order to replace the outer seal, you have to pull the bearing off the axle. I posted pictures of my home made 4 foot long puller and the seal installation plates I made form a suggestion posted by Melben on here. Worked slick. While it was apart, I cleaned all the mating surfaces and flushed the axle tube out to get the grease and gear oil before painting.

 

[phil4pres]

Was worried bout rear wheel since seen so many brake problems on here , just hope it not real bad .. when I get fluids changed m put top back on casings do I need use something like blue glue on them or something else help keep water out ? Do u think b good idea go ahead n drill plug n bottom so get to screen n clean it.. jusk inside your gearbox is cleaner than my whole setup .. lol

 

[Juskatla]

Clean is good. I did degrease and power wash mine a few times before beginning the dismantle. I still found dirt and grease in behind bits and eventually won that battle. The gear cases, once open will need to have the old gaskets removed and with the covers off, flush them out. A couple of sweeps with one of those magnets with a telescopic extension will pick up most of the bits you didn't flush out. I used diesel fuel but solvent or other similar products will work. You will probably find a layer of emulsified lube oil from the water in the oil coating the bottom. A brush and a flush will get you to look like the picture I posted. I used a 5 gal bucket under the drains and let its settle out before transferring the clean diesel into another bucket for another flush. I didn't drill the drain hole in the shuttle case as my screen was not plugged and I did a complete tear down with all new gaskets. I would suggest that if you can't see the screen, its a good idea to drill the access. If you are taking it apart anyway, wait until you see what is in the bottom of the case and then decide. With the plug below the pickup screen, its would be easy to clean.

For your top covers, I would scrape off all the old gasket material and get a couple of new ones. Use a good brand gasket sealer and you won't have water issues. Silicone can be a problem if any of it ends up inside the shuttle case as a bit coming off will plug the oil channels. I tend to stay away from it in this type of application. I'm sure lots of people will tell you it would be fine but I've seen pictures of the pickup screen and some of the junk blocking it was old gasket and silicone gasket cement.

The brakes are not on the wheel axles on these tractors, so that small leak would not be an issue for now. The seal will eventually need to be replaced. Two actually, one at each end. The brakes however, are located on the outboard side of the differential shaft, ahead of the rear axles. There is a seal and O ring as part of that assembly that will leak and oil your brakes. Its a bit of a procedure to change the seal and O ring on each side but that is best left for another post after you have researched other threads on here for what to check and how to proceed. If the brakes are oiled, you will need to do the seal and O ring or all the work will be wasted in short time. Don't overfill the oil as the 17qts will get you a level around the middle of the axle, which is good for bearing and gear lubrication,

 

[phil4pres]

Thanks jusk , u make sound easy .. I should have took pressure washer to it cause a lot of stuff on it now is mostly from lines blowing , especially that short big one n pic on bottom of loader control, just got bucket put back together n pins tacked on it was gonna try see if everything thing worked and boom !! I was turned around digging n it blowed ( felt like elephant j##ked off on me ) just glad I was turned around and not setting forward. But with my shorts pocket n boots filled was not good feeling.. I will try and drain and see what I can find n bottom today.. thanks for all info cause I'm green horn on this big yellow monster..

 

[phil4pres]

Just lil black stuff n bottom ( so far )

 

[Juskatla]

Flush that out a couple of times and you should be OK. Notice the rust on the diff and side gears from the water in the oil. Once good clean gear lube goes back in, you should be OK. Another change would be in order once you put some hours on it. I've certainly seen a lot worse over the years. My old tractor had an easy life after the first couple of years, so wasn't quite as beaten as some of the ones I've seen on here. At least these are easy to work on for us amateurs.

 

[phil4pres]

heres bout all found n back 2 compartments, really fine stuff with one piece on top have flushed it 3 times ..

 

[phil4pres]

Ya jusk I was thinking the rust from water but was not sure..thanks for awnser.. and I'm ready put hrs on it !!! My brother just took radiator n starter back shop n one off dump truck I got with Backhoe deal .. ain't purdy but long is it does its job ..( must b south thing ). Haha thanks for reply wouldn't have done half it without good advice from this place ..