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Teaching the tricks of Grading

Grader4me

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
1,792
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
Could I make it??

Sure... no problem for me to make the climb, but I won't have to because I'll be "boiling the billy"... so...just what in the heck would I be cookin?? Goat is coming to mind here...:eek: Remember you're talking to a Canadian ...eh?

Great picture of the O&K. To have an opportunity to operate a machine that is as rare as that, and have a picture of your grader as well? Priceless.
 

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Memories.

Hi, MKTEF.
At least we've all survived long enough to HAVE all those memories and we CAN still run AND maintain those machines if need be. There are a lot here who haven't, and can't, and keep asking for our advice and assistance. Redundant? Not yet, I think.

I'll soon be attending a show with a LOT of those 'dead horses' of yours and I'll be loving it, as will a lot of other people, many of them a good bit younger than us 'old dogs'.

If those are Swedish Army grenades you're tossing in to stir the pot. I'd suggest you change suppliers. Those ones aren't having much effect. LOL.

What machines are in the Engineer's Museum - 1999 Volvos? LOL.

:stirthepot :guns :woohoo :sleeping
 

Randy Krieg

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
260
Location
Arizona
Occupation
Test Pilot/Operator @ Caterpillar's Tucson Proving
Nothing beats some HEF to go with coffee in the morning, better than creamer.

Deas, tell me more about that O&K. I did as much reading about it as I could when I working in Decatur, but I couldn't actually find anyone who had run one. I talked to foremen and Superintendents who had been around them on jobs, but no operators.

The worst ladder I ever climbed was on a 16H. The machine was at the Yanacocha Mine in Peru. The mine was at 14,500 ft. elevation in the Andes Mountains. Yanacocha/ Newmont had bought 4, 14Hs & 2 16Hs, I went there provide training for the operators. The air was so thin at that elevation by the time you got up the ladder you would collapse in the seat. The machines ran like slugs. Amazing operation.

I was working at MINEXPO in 96 for Caterpillar when they introduced the Autonomous Triple 7. It bombed at the show. The customers didn’t want an Autonomous Truck, they wanted a bigger truck and they made their case perfectly clear. Immediately following the show the push was on to finish developing the 797. Komatsu had their new BIG truck at the show and that’s what everyone that money was looking at. Once again the customer had spoken!

Regards, Randy
 

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
That O&K Grader.

Hi, Randy.
That grader was a BEAST and a half. Not as heavy or as powerful as the Cat 24's but still up there with the top end of graders.

At 42 tons and 400 hp and with a 20 foot blade, you can shift a LOT of material and look after a LOT of scraper-loads in a day. I had no problem looking after the fills and the haul roads for 3 Cat 660B scrapers on short hauls being push-loaded by a 'Kummagutsa' D455A dozer. I was also ripping the borrow pit floor for them, cleaning up after top-soil stripping, putting the last scrapings of top-soil into windrows that the scrapers could pick up, tining up any wheel-rolled areas before new fill material was placed there, getting the fills ready for wheel-rolling to seal them at night and doing any other little odd jobs that the foreman managed to dream up, all without sweat.

It had both blade lifts under the right hand, plus lean wheels and scarifiers/rippers. All other functions were under the left hand. The blade lift controls and a couple of others were air-over-hydraulic. Some were electric over hydraulic but none that required any degree of 'feel'.

It's a rigid frame machine - 'Give me 40 acres and I'll turn this rig around' - but still surprisingly handy when you are used to it. The transmission control, under the right hand, is a Morse cable control that has the early John Deere grader disease - it has the neutral position to the rear. It also has detents between gears, INCLUDING between first and neutral. Not smart.

I thought it had pretty good blade visibility and good general visibility all round. I could even see what the rippers were doing behind me.

All in all, I quite liked operating it. It felt stable and strong, it could put its grunt on the ground and it was pretty comfortable. I did a bit of batter cutting with it and didn't leave any 'twisty-cap' marks on the seat. I pushed the 660 scrapers out of bogs with monotonus regularity and could even push-load them way better than a 270 hp Cat D8H that was also on site.

I had been on a Cat 16 for about an hour 3 years prior to this and that was the biggest grader I had run to that time. Immediately before getting on the O&K, I was running an early Cat 14G and had no problem stepping up to the O&K. They had tried 3 other operators on it prior to me and none of them seemed to be able to get their heads around just how much it could do. They were running it with Cat 12-sized loads on the blade and falling way behind the scrapers all the time.

Just for an idea of what it could do, we were building an earth-wall retention basin for treated effluent for sugar cane irrigation. The base of the bank had to be keyed in down to good sealing clay. This meant that the scrapers would come through and cut a straight vertical-walled trench down to the clay. This trench might be anything from 2 to 4 feet deep. I would then come along with the O&K and cut one side of the trench down into the bottom for the scrapers to pick up. Then I would cut the other side the same way. It seldom took more than ONE pass, even in a 4-foot deep trench, to get the side cut down into the bottom for the scrapers to pick up. I was impressed.

When all is said and done, it is still basically a heavy, rigid-frame, haul road grader with all that implies but I liked it.

Any questions?
 

Grader4me

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
1,792
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
Maybee you old dogs should stop barking at each other...:jerry

Your without teeth, and soon tecnology has passed u all.:deadhorse

The memorys of pony engines, ether, standing operating, black smoke and long, high, steps in black and white photos will soon be the only thing left.
:stirthepot:stirthepot:stirthepot

Good one MKTEF! I'll have you know that regardless of everything else that I've lost..I still have my teeth.. Lol...yup...memories...:)
 

Stripeyjack

Active Member
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
25
Location
North-East Victoria, Australia
Question for Deas Plant....

Regarding the wilds of Western Australia... do you know anything of Len Beadells Gunbarrel Highway Construction Party dozer, I think **** Smith was looking for it for an restoration project about 10 years ago, and if it was found??? I may be wrong but I think it was a D7. I want to one day go and have a look at 'Lennies Cat Cage' where the grader is kept (Warburton/Giles cant remember:confused: brain going a bit mushy or something)... only need to firstly win Powerball this week to afford a fourby (and the fuel:rolleyes:) to go for a thrash down the Gunbarrel and see first hand what this bloke achieved... a real legend in my book:notworthy.
Cheers:beerchug
Stripeyjack
 

Squizzy246B

Administrator
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
3,388
Location
Perth, Western Australia
Occupation
Digger Driver
Regarding the wilds of Western Australia... do you know anything of Len Beadells Gunbarrel Highway Construction Party dozer, I think **** Smith was looking for it for an restoration project about 10 years ago, and if it was found??? I may be wrong but I think it was a D7. I want to one day go and have a look at 'Lennies Cat Cage' where the grader is kept (Warburton/Giles cant remember:confused: brain going a bit mushy or something)... only need to firstly win Powerball this week to afford a fourby (and the fuel:rolleyes:) to go for a thrash down the Gunbarrel and see first hand what this bloke achieved... a real legend in my book:notworthy.
Cheers:beerchug
Stripeyjack

My old man has some of these books by Len

http://books.google.com.au/books?as...=print&ct=title&cad=author-navigational&hl=en

Now I would have swore Black & Blue that both Deas and I have posted pics of Len's Grader on here but I can't find it for the life of me. They did find "a" dozer but it wasn't a D7...and nobody knew where it came from. I'll search some more.

Too long in the Bush is just a great story:

http://images.google.com.au/imgres?...rev=/images?q=Len+Beadell&hl=en&safe=off&sa=G
 

Stripeyjack

Active Member
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
25
Location
North-East Victoria, Australia
Yeah I have a few of the Beadell books, 'Outback Highways' is a 'best of' and is a real good read and also a biography by Mark Shepheard and also have "too Long In the Bush' on video which is pretty good also and is now available on DVD and can be ordered off a website run by the Beadell familyhttp://www.beadell.com.au/lb_ourprods.html#DVD. As for the dozer I think that it was going to be a restoration project by the Aust. Geographic Society which is why Richard Smith (the electronics fella ) was involved but cant remember what happened with the search...so thats something to have a scout about on the web for I guess. I know the grader was a Cat product-must've done it tough just like the crew and the Land Rovers etc :notworthy (hold Cat stuff in high regard too:))
Still finding out the ways of the forum, it would appear that D ick is not a accepted nice word, coming up as **** in my last post, hence the use of Richard in this one, just in case there was any confusion:bouncegri
Cheers:beerchug
Stripeyjack
 

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
THAT Dozer.

Hi, Stripeyjack and Squizzy246B.
As I understand it, there were several dozers used during the 8 or so years that the Gunbarrel Road Construction Party was making roads through central Australia. I suspect that there were at least two used in the original Gunbarrel highway construction. If you have a copy of, "Too Long In The Bush", there is a photo there of a Cat D8, probably a 1H or an 8R series, on a float with the prime mover well and truly stuffed into the front door of a pub. I believe that is the first dozer that they took out there. They brought out another float, swapped the dozer over to the second float and continued on their way, leaving the first float to hold the front of the pub up.

Later in the book, there are photos of a Cat D7 cutting road through the bush. In one photo taken directly from the rear, it shows the dozer fitted with a logging winch. There is also a photo in this same book of a Cat D7 with a string of vehicles in tow. I believe this photo is actually from the time of the book, "End Of An Era", when they had to tow several broken vehicles and the broken-down grader back to Giles.

The Gunbarrel Highway was cut through to the Giles Weather Station site and then halted while the weather station site was cleared and levelled and an airstrip put in. It's been a while since I read the book but I seem to remember that there was an end-of-year break in there too before they continued on with the rest of the road through to Warburton Mission.

This link may be of some interest to you:

http://www.beadell.com.au/lb_other_news.htm

The dozer shown on this site is not, to the best of my memory at least, any of the dozers seen in any of Len's books. But then I am getting along in years. LOL.

Stripeyjack, if my understanding is correct, you can't drive ALL of the original route these days without getting some special permits. I've been told that the route was changed to cater for an aboriginal reserve that was created after the original road was built. Pity, but that's why we have bureaucracies, to tell us that we can't go where we want and do what we want in the only home we've ever known 'cos some others have laid claim to some of it while those others CAN go where they like when they like and how they like.

Sounds a whole lot like discrimination to me.
 
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Stripeyjack

Active Member
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
25
Location
North-East Victoria, Australia
Thanks for the info D.P., all interesting stuff, might go and rustle up my Beadell video as my books are elsewhere but due for a re-read too! Still if any of the dozing gear has survived it'd be a neat restoration project or monument to the road projects. Youre right in terms of the permits as I think a few of the communities are sort of closed shops and indeed some of the Gunbarrel has been abandoned I think... I know what youre saying and agree re the bureaucracy, I had :my2c worth on the 'tree hugger' topic on the dozer section yesterday and its sorta the same sentiment, but I am not going to:stirthepot any more on that one!
Cheers:beerchug
Stripeyjack
 

w2bstoned

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 24, 2008
Messages
136
Location
canada
So any of you old timers going to start that grading school????
I would be interested in learning a few tricks...
Thanks :drinkup
 

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Grader School??????? What grader school??????????????

Hi, w2bstoned.
Grader school? What grader school? Just go out and learn the same way I did, by getting your favourite rump steak in the seat and doing it. LOL.

I don't know that I'd be much use to you if I started a grader operator's school. The commuting would KILL yer. Yer see, I live DownUnder, I'm not that keen on raising my voice and I doubt you'd see me from where you are if I made like a demented windmill with hand signals.

Hope and pray that Brian Abernathy gets his school up and running soon.
 

w2bstoned

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 24, 2008
Messages
136
Location
canada
I can move a grader... Grade a road with a crown but I would like to learn some tricks of the trade... I will agree that there isn't many grader operators left... Alot of the rookies want nothing to do with the grader...
I really think some could make a small fortune in teaching people to operate on a real job site. But hey who do you know that has endless supply of patience? :my2c
 

bear

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
541
Location
South Central Kentucky
Occupation
Math, Physics, keeping out of trouble and doing od
"Donk"? engine?

Deas, what's with the "donk" engine? That much of a pain in the rear or what? Please edumacate us yungster's here amigo. :D :notworthy
 

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
'donk' engine.

Hi, Bear.
Here in DownUnder, 'donk' is an older slang term for an engine. The early Cat gas pilot motors were also called 'donkey' engines DownUnder.

The pilot motor was one of the exercise devices that God ever let anybody use. You could get a whole week's exercise in one morning sometimes, just trying to get the pilot motor started so that you could start the diesel to go do some work. Then you had the benefit of all the exercise involved in doing the work as well, what with walloping great steering levers, brake pedals, a heavy master clutch and cable blade control levers. No wonder there were less heart attacks way back then. We got far more exercise then than we do today. LOL.
 

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Grader school.

Hi, W2bstoned.
Endless supply of patience? More to the point would be an endless desire to learn. Even more so than with most other machines, if you ever stop learning with graders, you're dead from the neck up.

One of the best learning aids you can possibly have with a grader is a good supply of blood to the 4 pounds or so of grey, mushy material between your ears to keep it alive and responsive. This helps you to learn from your experiences, both good and bad and to also learn from the experiences of others, without having to go through the pain of making any of their mistakes yourself.

" 'Tis better to ask a question and appear dumb than to not ask the question and prove that you are dumb." With this in mind, feel free to ask any questins that occur to you here on the forum. There are one or two crusty old fossils here who may just have an answer or 3 for you.
 

Randy Krieg

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
260
Location
Arizona
Occupation
Test Pilot/Operator @ Caterpillar's Tucson Proving
Great Information

:thumbsup Deas

Thank you very much for the response/information on the O&K. Very informative as always.

Also enjoyed your take on the "pony motor"/ "donkey engine". The first D8 my grandfather & father owned had a pony motor. They were masters at starting that thing. It took me a while to learn the idiosyncrasies of it. Sometimes I just had to go sit down and rest for a minute I was so worn out from trying to crank that thing. It sure worked good for preheating the combustion chambers of the main and priming the rods with oil pressure before flipping that compression release. It really was a neat concept in all. For you young guys that hven't been around one, they routed the exhaust pipe for the pony motor through the the intake manifold of the main engine. They also had a compression release lever on the firewall so you could spin the main engine over without compression, let it build a little heat in the chambers, some oil pressure on the gauge then flip the lever. Great preheating system. I remember starting that thing at sub zero temperatures after letting the pony spin the main for about 30 seconds, it would light right up as soon as that compression lever was flipped. They had that lever setup just right so you could flip it over with your right toe. :scool

Mmmmmm The good ol days!

Thanks again Deas Plant

Regards, Randy:)
 

RonG

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Joined
Dec 2, 2003
Messages
1,833
Location
Meriden ct
Occupation
heavy equipment operator
Those pony motors also had a two speed transmission in the event that it was so cold that you could not turn the diesel engine over in direct you could get the oil moving and start building up engine heat in low gear until you could get back in direct and spin the engine fast enough to start it.It was an ingenious system and I marvel over it today.Ron G
 

bear

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Mar 22, 2008
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541
Location
South Central Kentucky
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Math, Physics, keeping out of trouble and doing od
Thanks fer the onfo fellas. It didn't get to the other side of my head as to donkey+pony= the same thing, go figure :p the company i did bridge work for had an old cable dozer with a pony on it (don't remember what model but it was a cat) they had a big grader box type thing on the front occasionally to spread fill and all that I never had to mess with it being out on the deck catching iron and all that but the guy that ran that one kept it in good shape and seemed like performed more maintenance on the pony than the dozer. It was only on that particular job we did in WV and the only reason it was brought out was if the thing was lost off the side of the mountain it was cheaper to leave it and buy a new one (or they were hoping to lose it :beatsme ) the guy running it kept it alive and out of trouble and for the most part was running when some of the newer stuff was down for repairs.
 
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