Sullair 185

[Slim Tech]

Working on a Sullair 185 s/n; 20081170014

Machine starts and runs great. As long as it's in warm-up mode, once switched over to run it dies after initial pressure builds up. If a valve is open when switched to run it will run great, if you reach over and SLOWLY shut the valve it will stay running, however if you reach over and just close the valve it will die.

The ssam light blinks 3 times for engine oil pressure, but I suspect that has nothing to do with it dying, just that it is a result of it dying.

Ideas?

TIA, Slim

 

[Delmer]

Does it blow some black smoke when dying? sputter at all? slow down, or just shut off immediately?

Some things point to lack of fuel, and some things point to the engine being shut off. Depending on what happens, I'd either test the fuel pressure and/or the power to the injection pump while it dies. Assuming this is a basic injection pump?

 

[Slim Tech]

Does it blow some black smoke when dying? sputter at all? slow down, or just shut off immediately?


Some things point to lack of fuel, and some things point to the engine being shut off. Depending on what happens, I'd either test the fuel pressure and/or the power to the injection pump while it dies. Assuming this is a basic injection pump?

It dies like it's not able to unload the pressure. No smoke, slows down like being overloaded then dies

 

[Delmer]

I'm still trying to guess whether the engine or the compressor controls are causing it to shut down.

If you think it's overloaded then is the air pressure building higher than it should?

More likely in my mind, the engine isn't getting enough fuel and dies as it runs out of AVAILABLE fuel. If it was stalling from overloading, I'd think it would have some visible smoke. A picture of the injection pump might help.

 

[Ben Witter]

More than likely the unloader is not functioning correctly on the compressor. If I remember correctly there is also an electrical component to the unloader function that allows the machine to run in standby without pumping so it does not load the engine for warmup purposes. It's been over 15 yrs since I have seen one so I cant say exactly what to check on it. If you have pics of the inlet on the compressor it may help.

 

[Phillip Butler]

Did you ever figure out this issue? I have a Sullair 185 with a John Deere engine in the shop now with what sounds like the same issue. I've changed the fuel filters and oil pressure switch. Didn't figure it was the oil pressure, but customer insisted. His money.
Been trying to check the RPM, idle is at approx. 2000RPM, when I can get to rated PSI the RPM is about 2600RPM.

 

[mg2361]

Welcome to HEF Phillip!

How about the engine serial number. I bet it is a 4024 engine?? If it is your in for a fun ride.

What specifically is the issue? When you put it into run position, does it die immediately? Only when you open the air valve? Does it die like it is running out of fuel or die like you turned the ignition off? Post pictures of the dash lights while it is dying.

 

[Phillip Butler]

mg2361,

4024 is right. SN- PE4024T189522. Sounds like I am in trouble. LOL

Starts and runs fine until closing the air outlet valve, and will only do this when it has been running for a few minutes. Then shuts down like the engine was shutoff. have been troubleshooting with Sullair and have gone as far as they can go on their side. Checked the oil pressure (55-60psi) and switch. Good. Checked the coolant temp switch. Good. Checked the fuel shutoff. Good. Fuel shutoff has 12 VDC after engine has shut down when air outlet is closed.
Doesn't slowly die like lack of fuel. After it has ran for a few minutes and dies when the outlet valve closed, I can start right away and sometimes it will start and run sometimes when its almost at idle rpm it will shut down and if it does stay running after the start when I turn the warm up valve to the run position it will shut down.
No dash lights while dying, after it has shut down the SSAM light flashes three times repeatedly. Which is what lead us to the oil pressure, but we think that that is a result of the shut down not the cause. I have tried another SSAM and it did the same thing.
We are a Caterpillar dealer not a John Deere dealer, not familiar with JD engines and don't have access to manuals, procedures or tooling.
It's left with the customer to let us know what they want to do with it.

Unless someone has any ideas if where to look or what I can try now.

Any help is appreciated,

Phil

 

[mg2361]

Just to eliminate a possibility, is the oil pressure switch near the engine oil filter or on the other side of the engine? If it is on the other side, move it to the port just in front of the engine oil filter/oil cooler.

Starts and runs fine until closing the air outlet valve

You are starting it with the air valve open and the unit in the run position? It does have a start/run knob, correct? What happens when it is started with the air valve closed and the knob on the instrument panel is in the start position? Then flip the knob to run what happens?

Fuel shutoff has 12 VDC after engine has shut down when air outlet is closed

Did you have a meter on the solenoid when it shutdown, or did you check voltage just after shutdown?

 

[Phillip Butler]

mg2361,
Oil pressure switch is installed in the engine block forward of the oil cooler/oil filter assy.
I have started it without the valve in the run position by accident and it shuts down once it gets up and running. When I start it in the start position, sometimes it shuts down when turned to run and sometimes it stays running. Depends on how fast I switch it. Slowly it will stay running, quick it will shut down.
I had a meter on the solenoid. Reading battery voltage before start. 14 vdc when running. Battery voltage after engine shuts down for a few seconds until the SSAM detects that there is no/low oil pressure and cut power to the solenoid to shut the engine down.

 

[Vetech63]

This should be good! LOL The SSAM's are usually very accurate. Don't ask why but I've had to replace numerous oil pressure switches on those for a similar issue. DONT try to match up another switch locally as it doesn't work. The only way I got it fixed was to buy the switch from Sullair.
I hope its not an engine problem.......those are a b*****d!

 

[Phillip Butler]

Vetech63,
New oil pressure switch is from Sullair. First issue was shutting down for low oil pressure, it would shut down after 30 seconds every time it was tried. customer bought a pressure switch from John Deere, installed it and it still shut down for low oil pressure. We had one ordered from John Deere installed it and it still shut down for low oil pressure. Finally ordered one from Sullair and that fixed that issue. Sullair must want the switch to actuate different than John Deere.
Now I have the issue outlined above. Don't think I'll be going inside the engine with us not being a John Deere dealer. We have tried to get info from them in the past and they seem to be about as secretive as Caterpillar with info.
It's been left up to the customer to decide what will be done. Just waiting to hear back.

 

[mg2361]

If you were having the typical 4024 engine issue in an air compressor, it would not shut off like you turned a key. It would slow down until it dies like it was running out of fuel.

I had a meter on the solenoid. Reading battery voltage before start. 14 vdc when running. Battery voltage after engine shuts down for a few seconds until the SSAM detects that there is no/low oil pressure and cut power to the solenoid to shut the engine down

Is the ground side of the solenoid good? Maybe you are losing the ground.

 

[Phillip Butler]

mg2361,
I did disconnect the solenoid and powered it from an separate battery. still did the same thing.

I also ruled out the lift pump and onboard fuel by using an external fuel pump and fuel from a jerry can. Still shut down. I'm kinda thinking that the additional load on the engine from closing the air outlet valve is too much for the injection pump and it can't keep up with the load.

 

[mg2361]

Is this customer complaint new to him or has it been an issue for some time?

I PM'd you.

 

[Phillip Butler]

As far as I know it's new as of when I first went to it. Which was back in December just before Christmas. Had to wait for them to bring it in. Checked it out, Had to wait for parts. They took it back, and brought it in when the parts came. been at it off and on since January.

Thanks, I'll check it out.