yep same thing different stickers.
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Suggestions for a used grader?
- Thread starter Allterra
- Start date
yep same thing different stickers.
Deeretime
Senior Member
If you go with deere go for the BH series and newer I Have A 1986 770BH with blade ext and brand new paint and heater and cab. It has 20,000 frame hrs on her tho but i still use it quite often for little stuff. with a weight on the front you get good pennitration for their sise and always have enough jam.
Let me know if you want picks and work orders i belive it has 4000hrs on new engine and trans chains are being done now
Let me know if you want picks and work orders i belive it has 4000hrs on new engine and trans chains are being done now
Silveroddo
Senior Member
What kind of numbers are you looking at in your contract?
Just going to throw this out there.......
15 miles of road x 4 times per year = 60 miles total. Assuming you can do it with one pass cutting and one pass spreading and if they're decent roads you should be able to get 1.5-2 miles done per hour ( really general numbers I have some roads I get 1.5 MPH on and some I can get 2.5-3 mph done on)
Lets be conservative and say 60 miles @ 1.5 miles per hour, your looking at 40 hours of grading + road time
I have no idea what you can get paid per hour or per mile in your location or what the possibility of picking up more work in your area with the machine would be, but when I read the numbers involved 2 things crossed my mind
A) I'd be looking for an older cat 12E or F in the 10-13K dollar range
or
B) Grading in other areas is far more lucrative than grading around here.
I know what you mean about knuckle busters, not sure if the controls are the same on the 12E's and F's but I have a Cat 120 S/N 60H (Same as the 12's I'm told) and the controls on it have some type of hydraulic assist, very minimal kickback in comparison to the older ones in my opinion. If they do kick back its because you have alot of force exherted on the lever and somthings got more pressure on it than it should have.
Anyway there are some distinct advantages to them and for the ammount of grading your talking about I wouldn't be afraid of one. I have a contract for 67 miles of road 5-6 times per year that I'm doing with mine, I'll guarantee its not as nice to run as the Deers and G models your looking at but I spent alot of 12 hour days in mine and its not horrible.
I've noticed some mid 80's champions in that less than 20k Price range, 720A's to be more specific, anyone have anything to say about them? I was getting the impression those are a good machine as well, might be one more thing to look at.
Just going to throw this out there.......
15 miles of road x 4 times per year = 60 miles total. Assuming you can do it with one pass cutting and one pass spreading and if they're decent roads you should be able to get 1.5-2 miles done per hour ( really general numbers I have some roads I get 1.5 MPH on and some I can get 2.5-3 mph done on)
Lets be conservative and say 60 miles @ 1.5 miles per hour, your looking at 40 hours of grading + road time
I have no idea what you can get paid per hour or per mile in your location or what the possibility of picking up more work in your area with the machine would be, but when I read the numbers involved 2 things crossed my mind
A) I'd be looking for an older cat 12E or F in the 10-13K dollar range
or
B) Grading in other areas is far more lucrative than grading around here.
I know what you mean about knuckle busters, not sure if the controls are the same on the 12E's and F's but I have a Cat 120 S/N 60H (Same as the 12's I'm told) and the controls on it have some type of hydraulic assist, very minimal kickback in comparison to the older ones in my opinion. If they do kick back its because you have alot of force exherted on the lever and somthings got more pressure on it than it should have.
Anyway there are some distinct advantages to them and for the ammount of grading your talking about I wouldn't be afraid of one. I have a contract for 67 miles of road 5-6 times per year that I'm doing with mine, I'll guarantee its not as nice to run as the Deers and G models your looking at but I spent alot of 12 hour days in mine and its not horrible.
I've noticed some mid 80's champions in that less than 20k Price range, 720A's to be more specific, anyone have anything to say about them? I was getting the impression those are a good machine as well, might be one more thing to look at.
Allterra
Well-Known Member
Deeretime;
thanks for the reply...really dont need pics unless your selling? Thanks for the feedback on deere machine's. We are in a rural area....maybe not as rural as yours,but still remote. the thing is we have a deere dealer and a cat dealer...so parts for any other brand is three to four days away fed ex express. Shop time is more because no one has ever seen anything else. as I said earlier cat machines seem out of my price range. I am buying this so I can keep making money and therefor feed my family. I had to rent twice last summer at 700 a day, Machine only, and that adds up fast! Next summer I hope to expand. So a reliable machine at a reasonable price is my goal.
thanks for the reply...really dont need pics unless your selling? Thanks for the feedback on deere machine's. We are in a rural area....maybe not as rural as yours,but still remote. the thing is we have a deere dealer and a cat dealer...so parts for any other brand is three to four days away fed ex express. Shop time is more because no one has ever seen anything else. as I said earlier cat machines seem out of my price range. I am buying this so I can keep making money and therefor feed my family. I had to rent twice last summer at 700 a day, Machine only, and that adds up fast! Next summer I hope to expand. So a reliable machine at a reasonable price is my goal.
Allterra
Well-Known Member
SiLveroddo:
You nailed it...with the info I gave you..I own a small excavation company and have had to rent in the past.....I Hate renting. Now I have the opportuity to pick up these contracts. After it is said and done the contracts would pay for the machine for the year and fuel used on the contract. No profit....but anything else that came up I would not have to rent. If I can find a cat machine i need to try it out. the only pre hydro model I ran had a pony motor. then in the army it was 140g's....good machines but still to expensive for me at this point. My uncle says "the only company that even makes a real blade is cat". I respect that....but my budget?
You nailed it...with the info I gave you..I own a small excavation company and have had to rent in the past.....I Hate renting. Now I have the opportuity to pick up these contracts. After it is said and done the contracts would pay for the machine for the year and fuel used on the contract. No profit....but anything else that came up I would not have to rent. If I can find a cat machine i need to try it out. the only pre hydro model I ran had a pony motor. then in the army it was 140g's....good machines but still to expensive for me at this point. My uncle says "the only company that even makes a real blade is cat". I respect that....but my budget?
Allterra
Well-Known Member
A note about the roads I am looking at. Recycled asphalt base on top of 2 to 6 inches of j base. 30 foot wide shoulder to shoulder with 15 foot wide bar ditches in areas.....sandy ......blow sand .....clay on a few high spots but mostly sand. Very poor maintance last 5 years not one of the previous "grader hands" touched the ditches.....now they are filled with sand. Washboards so bad my laser broke riding in the job trailer. Washboards are 4 inches deep in some areas. I am leary to list what I quoted them befor I get the contract signed.... but if you guys would let me know what you think is fair per mile for rebuild then for maitance i would be thankfull
Allterra
Well-Known Member
Ok just checked prices on machinery trader...12 f cats 17500 to 32000 same range as deere machines 20 years newer and with who knows how many tens of thousands of hours on them. I don't know if I can justify the age differance?
nickbowers
Senior Member
We had one to do a few jobs then sold it. Was a excellent machine, nothing went wrong, if there is a problem most can be fabed anyway. if its soemthing to do with the engine/tranny i am sure you could find parts somewhere.
Nick
Silveroddo
Senior Member
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/bfs/2097151280.html
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/for/2078059424.html
Prices on Machinery trader seem pretty high to me, I do look at it but I've been watching auctions and craigs list more, its buyer beware no matter what your looking at though. No way I'd pay more than 14 or 15 grand for one of those old cats, and I'd only pay that much if the drive train had been overhauled. Alot of people just don't realize what their stuff is really worth.
Is there much/any road time involved with what your bidding?
The bids I've seen per mile on forestry roads have been ranging anywhere from 39 to 60 per mile, no parking lots or culdesacks. The 39 per mile had some road time the 60 per mile obviously has alot more road time.
Depending on how bid happy your client is, I would try to do the repairs hourly, and the maintenance by the mile. In the real world its not your deal that they let it go so far, if you can work out a fair houlry deal to get it in shape, then a per mile bid to keep it that way I would try to do that. (thats how my contract is written, $80.00/hr for additional work) these numbers might be on the low end due to there being an abundance of guys like me with old graders around.
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/for/2078059424.html
Prices on Machinery trader seem pretty high to me, I do look at it but I've been watching auctions and craigs list more, its buyer beware no matter what your looking at though. No way I'd pay more than 14 or 15 grand for one of those old cats, and I'd only pay that much if the drive train had been overhauled. Alot of people just don't realize what their stuff is really worth.
Is there much/any road time involved with what your bidding?
The bids I've seen per mile on forestry roads have been ranging anywhere from 39 to 60 per mile, no parking lots or culdesacks. The 39 per mile had some road time the 60 per mile obviously has alot more road time.
Depending on how bid happy your client is, I would try to do the repairs hourly, and the maintenance by the mile. In the real world its not your deal that they let it go so far, if you can work out a fair houlry deal to get it in shape, then a per mile bid to keep it that way I would try to do that. (thats how my contract is written, $80.00/hr for additional work) these numbers might be on the low end due to there being an abundance of guys like me with old graders around.
Silveroddo
Senior Member
I'm thinkin theres some deals to be had at the moment, I saw 2 of those champions I mentioned go reasonably (in my eyes) at a municiple auction 15-18k with 8-9k hours in good condition. There was one more on another auction that I didn't go to and someone ended up getting it for 11500.00, kinda kicking myself for missing that one. Some of the best buys on equipment I've found were at auction in November and December. Might not be viable for you but just throwing it out there
Errol
Active Member
I've got a Cat 12 E, got it for $5,000 4years ago. Had to add some tires and things, but I guess I got a smokin' deal.
Silveroddo
Senior Member
Thats honestly what they should go for in my eyes, but hard to find one with much life left in it for that.
Justin
Well-Known Member
I agree with Allterra, all of my other equipment is Cat, And I have been looking for a grader but I cant touch a Cat for my budget. And I am glad to see this thread because I am going to look at 670 deere this next week. I live in a somewhat remote area and for that reason I want to stick with brand name. Parts may not be that hard to find but for some of the other brands they are expensive to afford. Good thread though
562C
Well-Known Member
90% of the old machines around here are Champion. Mid 80's municipal equipment goes 10 to 15 thousand...
I run an OLD champion that would more than do what you want, but you probably don't want an antique. I only use it about 100 hours a year, so don't see the point in spending big bucks. My 1960 562 Champion will do everything the newer ones at work do (other than articulate), and I haven't been stuck trying to fix ANYTHING. It's all mechanical and any idiot (me) can fix it. Cummins parts are available a LOT of places, and so are DD if thats what you choose to buy.
A job like you're talking about I would only quote by the hour, tell the customer what you think it needs and what you think it will cost, leave some wiggle room and tell him you'll quit when he's happy or wants to stop spending.
I run an OLD champion that would more than do what you want, but you probably don't want an antique. I only use it about 100 hours a year, so don't see the point in spending big bucks. My 1960 562 Champion will do everything the newer ones at work do (other than articulate), and I haven't been stuck trying to fix ANYTHING. It's all mechanical and any idiot (me) can fix it. Cummins parts are available a LOT of places, and so are DD if thats what you choose to buy.
A job like you're talking about I would only quote by the hour, tell the customer what you think it needs and what you think it will cost, leave some wiggle room and tell him you'll quit when he's happy or wants to stop spending.
Allterra
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the posts....now I am looking at a 730 champion mid 90's anybody familar with this model? problems? what to look for on a used one? I will have to buy soon or ...... rent :Banghead(yeck)
Allterra
Well-Known Member
At this point I am looking at everything.......I would like one I can work on myself hence the change to looking at older champions. I would rather spend 10 thousand more up front than hav to put 10 into the machine in the first year. I dont want the problems that one of the other guys in the forum is having with his fiat.
Allterra
Well-Known Member
Silveroddo...I must have not read this post fully when I looked at it when it was posted...two months ago. I did give them a by the mile bid but didn't think of the by the hour for repairs and additional work idea. The repairs are going to eat my lunch, and dinner and likely next days breakfast also....... But I would like to get in with this subdivision...so I am taking a chance on getting basement excavations and sepic systems if I do the roads. I pray I will pick up some more work for the machine because you are right with what I have now this is not a viable idea....and I am signing the loan papers tomarrow.