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Starting on my own.

catd8t

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
246
Location
Concord, NH
Occupation
bulldozer excuvator operator
im looking to start my own thing. i have been working in excuvation for 6 years now and know that after working for others i just want to do it my self. after counless arguments with bosses about how things should be done, i want to be my own boss. i would like to stat the 2012 season with my own equipment and own jobs. i know im good at the dirt part and have worked all over the us and canada to prove it, but i have no clue on the paper part of the job. the only paper i know is the blue kind ahah. i have been told that to have a successful company you need to stand out from the others. So i have a few questions for those of you that are your own bosses. how do i start ? im thinking a pc 200 sized excuvator and maybe a small dozer. id like to do house lots and land clearing landscaping and maybe other small excuvation then work from there. how do i start to get my name out there and also how do i deal with the money aspect of all this. its all kind of stressfull. i almost need someone to take me under there wing.


if you can help me out please post back or even send me a privite message.

thank you
 

stock

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
2,022
Location
Eire
Occupation
We have moved on and now were lost....
Firstly is there a requirement for a /another earthmoving company in your area, have you decided what type of civils work you wish to target, will the work level be able to cover the capital investment you have to make. Is there a company license requirement in your state? will you be able to qualify? how are you on OSHA and transport regulations? do you have sufficient contacts and finances to get started? Are you prepared to work all day on site and then at night doing paper work and pricing work, can you price work even?

I not trying to scare you off starting your own business but there are a lot of things to be considered, money is the main cause of new start-ups failing or should is say turn over is the main issue. I cannot advise you as I am not familiar with the state laws being from across the Atlantic but I hope these questions help you. PM me if you have ant specific questions on civil works or equipment.
Stock
 

Pops15

Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
9
Location
IL
Not excavating but I've been doing my own thing for 12 years. Worked in the family business for 20+ years before that.
Operating the equipment will be about half of your job.
Some of the things you can look forward to spending your time doing......
Estimating and billing, book keeping, obtaining business licenses, maintaining equipment, calling on builders and other potential customers.
Some overhead items you may or may not have considered....
Phone, Fax, website, insurance on trucks and equipment, liability insurance, underground insurance, unemployment, workers comp and medical insurance for your employees, you'll probably need to be bonded, you'll probably need multiple business licenses which may or may not require training to obtain and renew, advertising, office supplies, fuel, licenses for your trucks and trailers, you'll likely have some continuing education in regards to safety and environmental issues.
You'll need a shop or at least a pole barn where you can store and service your equipment. Don't forget the tools you'll need to service everything.
For residential and land clearing work you'll want an excavator, a TLB, and a crawler loader with a 4 in 1 or grapple. For finish grading/landscaping you'll want a small utility or big compact utility tractor with a loader, box scraper, and maybe a harley rake. You'll need a dump truck and a trailer. Two trucks would be better. You'll need a driver/laborer and possibly a second laborer if you're doing septic installations.
You'll get an education about liens, waivers, draws, and general contractors that are very slow to pay, and sometimes don't pay.
I suggest talking to your local building department and find out what your license, bond and insurance requirements will be. Find out what your trucks and equipment will cost and if the dealers offer financing. You may want to consider leasing. Talk to a banker, and talk to an accountant.
As far as standing out from the crowd.... The best way to do that is with service, service, service! Under promise and over deliver. Never ever tell a customer that you can do something or complete a job that you can't follow through on. Inevitably you'll still have some unexpected "issues". Take your lumps and move on. The last thing you want is an unhappy customer.
Pricing.... many newbies think they have to have the lowest price. In a tough economy pricing becomes more important to customers but price shoppers are usually the worst customers. They are the ones that will try to get you to do extra work for free. Just say no.
There's a company called R.S. Means that makes estimating manuals and software. That can be a good help to you. If you don't have a business background you may want to take business and record keeping classes at a community college.
If you want to start up in 2012 you should be doing things now to get prepared.
Good luck!
 

Hallback

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
2,331
Location
Aberdeen Wa.
Occupation
Gyppo tower logger
I started in the logging and excavation industry after being a timber faller,logger and doing dirt work for others for about 5 years. I banked up money from falling jobs until I had about $10K to start with and just rented equipment that allowed me to do the job for the first 3-4 jobs. I then bought one skidder and kept adding equipment only after the prior piece was paid off. If you are dead set on new iron then I suggest you get it on RPO (Rental purchase option).
RPO is a little higher interest but all your money paid into the rental goes onto your down payment if and when you decide to convert it into purchase and you do not need perfect credit to do it that way just the first month down. I had two new hitachi log shovels that way and thank god as the crash of 08 hit and I just sent them back, no bad credit,no worrying about what to do,ect. Sure I lost all I had paid into them but I made money off of them so I still came out ahead.

My advice is to start SMALL (one machine operation) and grow as demands grow. DO NOT go out and get iron for a job until you have 3-4 lined up UNDER CONTRACT and can move from unit to unit. Roll your profits back into the company and even if a piece of iron is paid for make a payment to the company for it each month. Don't be afraid to use REPUTABLE subcontractors or be a sub either. You will learn ALOT by being a sub for awhile. You will always have tax bills,leins,claims and people with their hands out for money so just expect to see what you think your profit should be on a job be 50% less. People are scandalous especially when it comes to their property,timber or most of all MONEY!!

Best of luck and I await your success to be posted!!
 

Pops15

Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
9
Location
IL
Hallback made a good point. Don't be equipment poor. Don't get upside down for any piece of equipment.
You also had a good idea when you said you need someone to take you under their wing. If you can find someone that's nearing retirement see if you can buy their operation. With a deal like that you could require that the seller stay on for a specified time to show you the ropes on the business side of things. There's the possibility of the seller financing you. The licenses, customer base, and other important contacts would already be in place.
Do your homework and use common sense and you should be fine.
 

Hallback

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
2,331
Location
Aberdeen Wa.
Occupation
Gyppo tower logger
Hallback made a good point. Don't be equipment poor. Don't get upside down for any piece of equipment.
You also had a good idea when you said you need someone to take you under their wing. If you can find someone that's nearing retirement see if you can buy their operation. With a deal like that you could require that the seller stay on for a specified time to show you the ropes on the business side of things. There's the possibility of the seller financing you. The licenses, customer base, and other important contacts would already be in place.
Do your homework and use common sense and you should be fine.

That is the best way there is to go about it. Even if you can find an ol boy who just has the name,numbers and contacts you will be miles ahead!!
I am looking to buy an old set of numbers right now as it would drop my L&I cost from $16.68hr to as low as $3-4 if they haven't had any accidents for 10 years or so and kept their premiums up and current.
 

BIGcatT870

Active Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2011
Messages
25
Location
Central Alabama
Occupation
Building and Repairing
I am in about the same situation. One thing I learned very quick. If you have a big heart and offer to do more for less, most people will abuse your kindness. Do what you promise you will do and charge a fair price. Word spreads fast about a job done well and even faster about a job done wrong.
 

grandpa

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Messages
1,979
Location
northern minnesota
Not excavating but I've been doing my own thing for 12 years. Worked in the family business for 20+ years before that.
Operating the equipment will be about half of your job.
Some of the things you can look forward to spending your time doing......
Estimating and billing, book keeping, obtaining business licenses, maintaining equipment, calling on builders and other potential customers.
Some overhead items you may or may not have considered....
Phone, Fax, website, insurance on trucks and equipment, liability insurance, underground insurance, unemployment, workers comp and medical insurance for your employees, you'll probably need to be bonded, you'll probably need multiple business licenses which may or may not require training to obtain and renew, advertising, office supplies, fuel, licenses for your trucks and trailers, you'll likely have some continuing education in regards to safety and environmental issues.
You'll need a shop or at least a pole barn where you can store and service your equipment. Don't forget the tools you'll need to service everything.
For residential and land clearing work you'll want an excavator, a TLB, and a crawler loader with a 4 in 1 or grapple. For finish grading/landscaping you'll want a small utility or big compact utility tractor with a loader, box scraper, and maybe a harley rake. You'll need a dump truck and a trailer. Two trucks would be better. You'll need a driver/laborer and possibly a second laborer if you're doing septic installations.
You'll get an education about liens, waivers, draws, and general contractors that are very slow to pay, and sometimes don't pay.
I suggest talking to your local building department and find out what your license, bond and insurance requirements will be. Find out what your trucks and equipment will cost and if the dealers offer financing. You may want to consider leasing. Talk to a banker, and talk to an accountant.
As far as standing out from the crowd.... The best way to do that is with service, service, service! Under promise and over deliver. Never ever tell a customer that you can do something or complete a job that you can't follow through on. Inevitably you'll still have some unexpected "issues". Take your lumps and move on. The last thing you want is an unhappy customer.
Pricing.... many newbies think they have to have the lowest price. In a tough economy pricing becomes more important to customers but price shoppers are usually the worst customers. They are the ones that will try to get you to do extra work for free. Just say no.
There's a company called R.S. Means that makes estimating manuals and software. That can be a good help to you. If you don't have a business background you may want to take business and record keeping classes at a community college.
If you want to start up in 2012 you should be doing things now to get prepared.
Good luck!

Geez,,, after all those regulations...maybe i'll quit.
 

catd8t

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
246
Location
Concord, NH
Occupation
bulldozer excuvator operator
this might be dumb but i can find any info on where i get my contractos license in my state. i alread have worked lined up, and i need to rent till i can figure out that i have enough work justify leasing something. Now do i put the rentel fees in my over head or in my bid costs?
 

Jumbo

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
689
Location
Black Diamond WA
Occupation
retired
As others have pointed out, your workload will be astronomical. I know of several successful contractors, all small to medium size. (Under $25 million a year.) Everyone started out as hallback described. All worked for the first ten years or so seven days a week 14 hours a day, with some extra hours tossed in to boot.

Having said that, none of them would change their decision. If you want to do it, go for it; be prepared for disappointment and great rewards. Have faith in yourself and just know that as the owner, to quote the late great Finley Hays: “Your clothes will be the rattiest, you will have the look of hundreds of sleepless nights with miles of worry lines and a great big silly smile.”

Me, I like being a wage slave…. Less stress…..:thumbsup
 

mlocklear1

Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
8
Location
Fairmont, NC
Occupation
Excavating/Grading PU-Water&Sewer Lines
What about branching off from an exisitng company, to a new start up? My father has ran a company for about 30yrs, and now I want him to help me start one i can call my own. Any advice?
 

stumpjumper83

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,979
Location
Port Allegany, pa
Occupation
Movin dirt
I was just going to sit silently, but I think tht this needs brought up.

With starting off with a pc200 sized hoe as your main piece, imho your trying to run a marathon without having learned to walk first. You need to start out small with a piece of stand alone equipment. Think mini excavator, skidsteer / ctl, or small backhoe.

If you mess up the bid on a 100' long 3' deep 12" wide utility ditch the bill will be alot easier to swallow than a 100 cu. yard rock cut.

Also your profit compared to operating costs are much more friendly to start out with. For instance 5 gal of diesel runs a mini all day, 5 gal feeds a 200 for what an hour and a half? Basically with a mini operator wage accounts for 40-50% of total hourly rate compared 15-20% of a large hoes rate. When your the owner operator thats a big difference.

One more thing, and this I will guarentee... you will have at least one customer who will refuse to pay. Swallowing that 100' water line bill slides down alot easier than a basement hole.

Also, whatever you get plan on moving it yourself. If its a 200, figgure in a semi + trailer. If its a skidsteer, a 1 ton truck and trailer.
 

catd8t

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
246
Location
Concord, NH
Occupation
bulldozer excuvator operator
great way of putting it stump jumper. so update on my own thing. i will be start this coming spring. i talked to my boss and he loved the idea. with him having a side old equipment sales business he said he could rent and lease to me if need be. i will also renting skidsteer and mini ex from my local bobcat dealer. i figure rent everything so if im out of work i wont be stuck with a payment. im looking for a truck right now. i dream of a 95 f-350 if i could find one at the right price and not to beat up, i love those trucks. i have a trailer to move things.im getting my septic design license soon so thats one more thing a can offer. i really want to find something not many people do so i can stand out alittle. i talked to an acountent can kinda went over that stuff. i want to find ways to get my name out and need to talk to the bank. oh and tell my girlfriend about this plan. lets see how she takes it hahaha
 

catd8t

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
246
Location
Concord, NH
Occupation
bulldozer excuvator operator
oh yeah keep the pointers coming. i really enjoy it.
 

stumpjumper83

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,979
Location
Port Allegany, pa
Occupation
Movin dirt
catd8, 3 years ago I was where your at now at I'm glad I made the jump. What has worked for me in rural pa, might not work or you in N.H., you will have to learn what works for you and adapt as it changes.

If you want to get your name exposed, do something common, at a reasonable price, with top notch quality.

What for vehicle do you have now?
 

SKM Excavation

Active Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Messages
35
Location
Sask,Canada
Occupation
Heavy duty Mechanic bye trade. Self employed cont
I run my excavation business as well as do some side work in my trade as a heavy duty mechanic when its slow. Keep in mind i'm a mechanic and do almost all my own repairs this allows me to run older equipment and keep it in relative good mechanical running order with a strict maintenance plan on all my equipment. How mechanically inclined are you?? this may be another reason to lease. I started out with my F-350 a tandem Elec/Hyd dump trailer a crappy old tandem dump truck a skid steer a few attachments and a rented mini ex and built up to what i have now. I don't do large scale jobs i live in a rural area most my work is done for farmers or our local R.M/county. With equipment you need to be able to move it you can not rely on heavy haulers moving you site to site that means buying a legal truck trailer set up getting all proper permits and a class 1A licence. With bigger equipment comes big expense and big responsibility. Also hired help i am lucky i have a retired father and a semi retired father in law that help me out when i need it i'm lucky cause their is always stuff that comes up on jobs its good to have extra hands. Anything that keeps you as an operator productive is a huge bonus running around for parts and so on don't help productivity. Also equipment storage i store my equipment at my father in laws farm its only about 6 miles from town were i live so real close and handy but yet out of site and safe people steal and trust me you leave stuff sitting around and you will be amazed what they will steal off a machine definitely you need a place to store your equipment this could cost you extra. You gotta really think this stuff through before you make the plunge. Im not getting rich bye no means its my mechanical ability and side mechanical work that keeps everything going smoothly and pays the bills when other stuff isn't going to hot lol. I've never lost money with my equipment thank god but i have came out of a lot of break even situations So its really nice to have something to fall back on. Good luck think everything through have a good realistic business plan and stick to it and you should do good.:)
 
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catd8t

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
246
Location
Concord, NH
Occupation
bulldozer excuvator operator
i live in an area thats country but with small citties not to far it makes a good mix. i have an 18 year old brother that has a small business mowing lawns so we have talked about blending that together keep me busy when i have no digging to do and get him in this trade and keep him busy
 

SKM Excavation

Active Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Messages
35
Location
Sask,Canada
Occupation
Heavy duty Mechanic bye trade. Self employed cont
i live in an area thats country but with small citties not to far it makes a good mix. i have an 18 year old brother that has a small business mowing lawns so we have talked about blending that together keep me busy when i have no digging to do and get him in this trade and keep him busy

I drove truck for a period of time and covered a lot of the u.s.a and all across canada and i remember delivering a load to Epsom,NH if i remember correct it was just north of concord very pretty country real rocky and bushy seems like people are real laid back a lot of small country towns. But man the interstate and road system is all screwed up if i remember right pretty much all major roads run north and south and i had to take a lot of small goat trail roads to travel in from the west and not many truck stops at all i remember getting fuel at a small country gas bar i had to jackknife into the pump with the trailer blocking half the road lmao.. but when i left i traveled straight north into Quebec nice scenery and roads all the way.
 
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catd8t

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
246
Location
Concord, NH
Occupation
bulldozer excuvator operator
you got it you where in my back yard i grew up in the town nex to epsom. where did you deliver?
 
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