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Repacking Hydraulic cylinders: I'm so confused

Discussion in 'Shop Talk' started by Willie B, May 12, 2017.

  1. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    Mount Tabor VT
    I've been months trying to repair a blade angle cylinder on a Dresser TD7G. I took it to a new hydraulic rebuilder, a young man who had done work for me before when he was an employee of a HUGE multi state trash company.
    I reasoned that he might need work being a start up. I soon learned that a huge quarry had contracted him for three days a week, and was pressuring him for more than three days.

    After a matter of weeks I called to ask how it was progressing. He sort of vented at me that he has no choice but take care of his big customers. He had no idea when he'd find time for mine. A couple weeks later I felt this was not going to happen. A dealer in a neighboring state felt they had pull with New Hampshire Hydraulics. My wait would be less if I took it to them, and let them send it. Though I didn't ask, they sent an estimate of exactly the same price a NOS cylinder would cost. I opted to go new. The "new" cylinder arrived with the keeper bolt hole drilled off center. The cylinder from California they would replace with two others identically wrong. In conversations, I agreed I could make it work, but $2400. was steep for a little hydraulic cylinder I'd then have machining cost to make it work. They were unwilling to negotiate, I sent it back.

    Eventually I contacted Finney in Alabama. They had a used, tested cylinder for $700. They sent it the same day. Two weeks later UPS had no knowledge of it. Several phone calls later they acknowledged their cylinder was no good, so they never sent it. I've been a couple weeks since trying to get a Master Card refund for it without success.

    Now Anderson Equipment in PA has sent me a new tube for the cylinder. This afternoon I tried to assemble it. The new packing kit is not the same as the old packing components. My parts manual, and my service manual show exploded diagrams of twenty identical rings. Trying to follow manual step by step instructions of heating item 13 in very hot water, it rolled to a 40 degree angle from the groove it should sit in. The next 13 items are indiscernible from any of the other items in the kit. I'm at a loss what to do now. Items 15, and 16 aren't in the drawing.

    Is there any way to repack these cylinders without waiting six months for an expert?

    Willie
     
  2. Tenwheeler

    Tenwheeler Member

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    Location:
    Georgia
    Sometimes I thought I was unhappy with my supplier in this department. Says he has trouble finding stuff I need or it's in his tool box and I forgot. He is honest just very busy and needs to be reminded at times. Sometimes I send the piston and gland with the packing I need, actually they pick it up and I am 2 1/2 hours away. They have made a piston for a metric cylinder because packing was not available for that unit due to size of grooves. Saved 75% on a $2000.00 replacement cylinder. Carolina Hose and Hydraulic's. Spartinburg SC. Ask for Lee but he is usually out.
     
  3. truecountry

    truecountry Senior Member

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    Shop Manager and Tech
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    clarksville va
    pics
    pics .please
     
  4. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    I'm surrounded by smart phones. Mine is sort of an antique. I did find a Dresser specialist mechanic today. From memory he was able to say what goes where. One "Wear Ring" that fits inside the gland rubbing on the rod was missing. I had to reuse an old one. Several parts in the kit are dissimilar to those removed. I believe I've got them where I need them. I believe for the first time in months I have a serviceable hydraulic cylinder.

    Willie
     
  5. jabo8120

    jabo8120 New Member

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    MA
    For the future, TST Hydraulics out of Merrimack, NH has been good to us.
     
  6. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    TSC, Is that different from New Hampshire Hydraulics? I believe they too are in Merrimack. Past experience with New Hampshire Hydraulics has not been a success. I spent many months calling them frequently about a backhoe valve. A six section valve, they ultimately diagnosed that three spool bores were oversized from new. As John Deere no longer offered sections, it required a whole valve replacement. I don't understand why they couldn't turn new spools to fit the bore, but they said that wasn't an option. Ultimately they sold me a new valve at a good price. 8 months is a long time to fix a hydraulic valve. I bought another backhoe, and sold that one after it was fixed.

    Thanks, I'll put the name in my file.

    Willie
     
  7. fast_st

    fast_st Senior Member

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    I had a similar experience with NHH, TST is down the street a bit, but they don't do cylinder manufacturing. They condemned a JD644E hydraulic pump because the 1" thick cast iron cover had a score mark. Lapping stuff isn't hard, if you can't lap it, blanchard grind it. They did okay on replacing a rod where all the chrome was peeling off, but the hose work and pump inspection, far overpriced.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  8. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    I used to do business with Reed's hydraulics in Gansvoort NY. They were very good, and I feel priced not low, but fair. Last time I went to them I had a backhoe stabilizer cylinder I couldn't get the piston nut off. No shop ever wants to do while you wait work. As I'd driven a long way, I asked them to do it.

    My previous visit to the shop they had a hydraulic wrench, shop built. That was gone. They broke one Chinese socket after another, before explaining the former owner had just sold the business to them, and took his tooling with him.

    Willie
     
  9. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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  10. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    Gee Scrub! on this side of the equator xxx is three kisses. I'm hoping that's not what you mean.

    Or, Moonshine distilled three times for purity is XXX.

    Willie
     
    Tinkerer likes this.
  11. jabo8120

    jabo8120 New Member

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    Just recently have been dealing with TST after local guy dropped the ball a few times and they were recommended to us. They don't know me from a can of paint but have been timely and fair on price.

    BTW no way affiliated been reading here for years and learned a lot for free and I can appreciate a honest business.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  12. fast_st

    fast_st Senior Member

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    I drive past TST and NHH on the way to TSC a few times a month. All the tractory goodness without the sales tax
     
  13. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    That part is nice.
     
  14. Labparamour

    Labparamour Well-Known Member

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    Washington
    Not sure where you stand on the packing.
    When I repacked a cyclinder for my bobcat hoe, the packing company included some "shims" as the replacement wasn't the same thickness as oem. Maybe that's why some extra parts? Or, generic kit that covers a number of cylinders so has extra parts?
    DB
     
  15. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    Winmill Equipment sold IH, then others. Much of their work these days seems to be older IH, Dresser, Dresta, now Komatsu. Komatsu offers parts for those older machines. Reggie is some sort of relative of the Winmill family, been there since Noah. He tells me they sell that kit to service many cylinders. I'm a bit concerned it misses the "wear ring" I needed. I don't see how it is a wear ring, unless it somehow improves the oil film.

    Willie
     
  16. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    My crane cylinders have what they call a wear ring, its a hard fiber type band, the purpose is to keep the piston centered in the barrel, and the seals centered on the gland end.

    I've sometimes not replaced the wear ring (I will if they are in the kit, if I'm in a hurry at the cylinder shop they don't carry the bands, just the seals, then I do without).

    The bands don't really "wear" much, they are more to keep the seals/o-rings from taking the weight/wear, and ruining the seals.
     
  17. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    Usually wear rings are as you describe. The groove inside the gland was an O ring...sort of. It was rubber, soft. Inside, and out were concave, the sides flat. behind it was a very small thin O ring sort of yellow in color. Don't quote me on color, they are dark or light to me.

    Willie
     
  18. mikebramel

    mikebramel Senior Member

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    So do you still need something? Do you have pictures or measurements?
     
  19. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    It is assembled, but not yet used. It functions, without leakage. Seals have now arrived I can put the blade back on. Did extensive rework of the tilt mechanism, and the swing pivot. Should be good as new thereabouts.
     
  20. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    Willie BSenior Member

    New
    Update: It is reassembled, functional, and not leaking. I put new bushings and seals in the blade assembly, some new pins. The tilt mechanism uses flat surfaces dry steel on dry steel. A surprising amount of wear. I built up with MIG, and ground back flat

    Willie