Question regarding control pattern.

[NZ scrap handler]

Hello all.

This is my first post on this forum (sorry if there is already threads concerning this however I haven't found one that answers my query).

I have been operating excavators for the last 7 years, mostly in scrap environments but also with some civil construction experience. The main ones I have used are Sennebogen 825,835 and Liebherr 924,934. These machines have a long reach boom and stick and a cab that lift into the air about 15 feet for ease of unloading/unloading of high truck sides and stacking stockpiles. In my time I have operated both very old machines upwards of 25000 hrs and brand new straight out of the factory machines. I have operated in New Zealand and Australia with no problems. The control pattern that seems to be the norm here for these scrap handlers (and for any civil construction equipment I have used, Komatsu, Caterpillar, Doosan, etc) have always been from what I understand is generally referred to as cat pattern, or SAE. I have heard of the 'John Deere' pattern which i believe changes the sides of stick and boom. Now my problem is i got offered a job at a new yard operating Sennebogens that on the face of it look no different from the ones I have used in the past both here and in Australia. However upon attempting to use this machine I discovered very abruptly that the open and close of the grapple/bucket is on the left side as well as the main boom, and the slew and stick are on the right. This is the exact opposite of the SAE configuration used by what seems is the rest of the country. I believe that John Deere configuration is only the boom and stick switched however the bucket and slew controls remain the same. I have found out that they changed the pattern on these machines upon delivery apparently because its more natural but I can't think of a single operator I know in NZ or AU that wouldn't have trouble changing to this configuration. I feel like I'm riding a bicycle with my arms crossed but in a 30tonne machine.

Has anyone encountered this control pattern that is the polar opposite of SAE? and is this a standard anywhere in the world? I'm having major trouble getting the machine to do anything I want it to such as trying to slew left and instead dropping material everywhere. I could relate if they had in on John Deere pattern as this seems widely accepted in some places but I have not really heard of this complete opposite. It's very frustrating and almost scary as I feel like a complete beginner again as my poor hands have to do the complete opposite tasks of what they're programmed to do.

Any info would be much appreciated.

 

[hvy 1ton]

Just to make sure, it's neither one of these patterns? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excavator_controls Sounds like a clipboard warrior got involved at some point. Any chance of asking the mechanics to set your machine to a pattern you are familiar with?

 

[007]

Hi NZ Scrap Handler,
You have my sympathy.
Never hear of complete opposite.
Your brain will learn new pattern in time but swapping the pilot hoses across sounds better way to go.
You just have to convince your new boss you are worth the few hundred dollar bill for mechanic to make changes.
I thought ISO was the norm to be honest and i tried for so long to get used to it but i came back to SAE as i found my pilot controls worked better.
Some guys can just switch between the two in a blink of an eye, WOW there brains are wired different to mine.
Good Luck.

 

[NZ scrap handler]

Hey guys, thanks for your time there.
hvy 1ton, no I have been all over the internet looking around for a name for this pattern and have seen that wikipedia page. It's got the stick and the boom as the ISO pattern however the bucket (grapple) and slew are also switched around. Have talked to them but they don't seem too keen on changing it as anyone else in the yard would not be able to use the machine since they have been trained in-house to use this pattern and have no experience operating with SAE anywhere else. The other operators seem to think they have programmed it in this unique manner to make it difficult for anyone that is trained by them there to jump ship and then join any other company (sounds like this could be that clipboard warrior hehe), however this is just speculation. Spent another day on it today and I still feel like I look like a nitwit for anyone watching. Still doesn't make much sense to me and I'm almost certain that anyone from NZ that's competent in the way every other digger here works that might move to this company is going to struggle. I dunno, maybe my brains just too stuck in it's way to accept change like this, I feel like I'd be better off crossing my arms. haha. And yeah 007 I could imagine that even switching the stick with the boom would be a real learning curve, I would definitely also take a long time to adjust. Feel like this is going to take me a good long while though.

Thanks guys I will keep trying to find a diagram of this pattern to make my example easier to understand.

Peace.

 

[BSAA65LB]

Extend (stick)/swing on the right, hoist (boom)/bucket on the left is K-pattern or Gradall pattern. It is not that common but does exist. You do find operators that think this pattern more natural. I dunno about that....

I can run Cat and Gradall pattern. John Deere just is impossible for me to come to grips with.......