Pulling 200 track hoe on tag trailer

[Junkyard]

I hate to be the first, and I can't even believe I'm going to rip the bandage off this, but here goes. I believe this ridiculous notion of "maintain your lane no matter what" has been propagated by the giant super carriers strictly from a liability standpoint. It's a largely defendable position, easily teachable, and leaves little room for question by newbie drivers. As an added bonus, the new steering wheel holders can get a confidence boost from the idea that no matter the situation, if they stay in their lane, they can get away with running over pretty much anybody in a situation that would normally require an evasive maneuver. It's total horse**it.

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more!

 

[Crummy]

Auto trans, speed limiter, lane departure warning, auto braking, driver facing camera, rollover protection system, GPS routing, ELD, continuous monitoring to the mother ship with parameter triggers....what do you really need to know to drive a truck for a mega? I don't think those CDL mills produce drivers that, even though they meet the CDL requirements, can operate safely in the 'real world'.

 

[td25c]

I hate to be the first, and I can't even believe I'm going to rip the bandage off this, but here goes. I believe this ridiculous notion of "maintain your lane no matter what" has been propagated by the giant super carriers strictly from a liability standpoint. It's a largely defendable position, easily teachable, and leaves little room for question by newbie drivers. As an added bonus, the new steering wheel holders can get a confidence boost from the idea that no matter the situation, if they stay in their lane, they can get away with running over pretty much anybody in a situation that would normally require an evasive maneuver. It's total horse**it.

Drive " Defensively " . Try my best to avoid the collision if possible .

Had a refresher coarse last week ...... Some Lame Ass in a car decided to pass me on a double yellow with oncoming traffic ...... Both lanes went to the shoulder out of training & instinct .... And the goof ball passed between us unscathed ..

I understand everyone is in a hurry , I get that ... For the cats & chicks driving wild on the road ..............

Get the hell off the road & drive over on the shoulder or off in the side grass as that's all you paid for !

Truckers pay for there lane on the pavement out of pocket ....

 

[suladas]

Crane Op, I wholeheartedly agree.

His response to this post tells me a lot when he mentions driving school teaches this. I have a good friend who went to driving school, has a 4 page driving record, and didn't renew his CDL, because no one would hire or insure him. He tells me all the time that it shouldn't be held against him because they taught him to "never leave the pad" or swerve away from someone in a truck. I can't count the amount of times I have violently avoided someone. BTW, I have had a truck driver's license, (they didn't call it a CDL back then), for 32 years and have a clean record for 27.

If you have 4 pages of driving infractions you shouldn't be driving a smart car, let alone anything else because you have no idea how to drive. There is clearly more to it then that. In nearly 10 years, I have zero infractions related to commercial driving. I run my own business to haul my equipment only and will never work for someone again. But I can assure you if I sent out 10 resumes for trucking jobs in areas I have experience in, I would get 10 job offers. I never took driving school, this is from talking to instructors, etc when I was taking my test, and from what my mom was told more recently what she took drivers training and got her license. She was told that there, and further instilled after from me about driving.

Again it depends if you're loaded, what you're hauling, road conditions, etc. If you don't drive in areas with snow and ice, you don't have a clue about what drivers do in those areas, it's like learning to drive all over again.

 

[suladas]

While I get what your saying, I'm not taking the ditch to save someone else. One of my friends cousins had a drunk driver come into his lane and he took the ditch to keep from pancaking the dude. He ate a power pole for his trouble and was dead before the D9 broke loose. It was 11am. He was younger than i am now, and I went to his funeral.

And that is exactly what i'm talking about. Why the hell should someone risk their life to save an idiot when the idiot made the mistake? I bet they wouldn't do the same for you. Everyone has a family. I'd rather be alive then right, or a "good guy". It's no excuse to say "Oh they just looked at their phone for a second" etc etc. Driving is dangerous, take it seriously, if you don't there is consequences.

 

[suladas]

I hate to be the first, and I can't even believe I'm going to rip the bandage off this, but here goes. I believe this ridiculous notion of "maintain your lane no matter what" has been propagated by the giant super carriers strictly from a liability standpoint. It's a largely defendable position, easily teachable, and leaves little room for question by newbie drivers. As an added bonus, the new steering wheel holders can get a confidence boost from the idea that no matter the situation, if they stay in their lane, they can get away with running over pretty much anybody in a situation that would normally require an evasive maneuver. It's total horse**it.

Well some points make sense, it is easier for newer drivers to get right. But of course it's liability. What happens if a camera fails, no witnesses and a driver takes the ditch to avoid an accident, writes off the truck, trailer, and say some cargo that is worth a decent bit, not factoring in them potentially dying or getting hurt (add in possible lawsuit against company for that). They could easily ruin $500k of stuff, and the company is on the hook for it, hell how many times could the amount be over a million dollars? Why should any company want that risk?

Most idiots in their cars aren't worried about getting run over anyway. How often do they cut off semi's and either believe they can stop as fast as them, or that getting run over wouldn't be too bad. The stupidity of most people knows no bounds, and I for one will not risk my life for them.

The only and most important thing to the safety of cars on the road is education towards semis and making people realize how long it takes them to stop, etc. Not that it would do much good.

 

[suladas]

Here's my take on it. Obviously we're in a different position here with much lower axle load limits than it seems you have there, and pintle hooks are rarely used, but so far I see everyone in the thread saying it's a bad idea. Now to me, if you keep getting told by seasoned drivers - and heavy haul drivers at that - that your idea is unsafe, then to me it seems like it must be a bad idea, and to keep arguing otherwise is pretty damn arrogant. JMTCW

First of all, do you personally know anyone here or their qualifications? I know I don't. Unless I KNOW someone is experienced in what they are talking about, their opinion doesn't hold much weight unless I can verify it, or they can explain in detail why they know what they are talking about. And unless they have personally done a somewhat similar combination, how do you believe they have any experience on the matter or know anything about? Someone could be a great driver, tons of knowledge, but if they've only pulled a flatdeck for 30 years down the highway, their knowledge on pulling a pintle equipment trailer is going to be zero.

Secondly, many of the things I see on this site people claiming are not safe, are completely safe, and seasoned drivers I know personally agree on that, and you see it all the time here without any problems, and DOT's also have no issues with it. So if someone here is saying "it's not safe" towards something I know is, their opinion on saying something else isn't safe doesn't hold much weight (unless it is backed up).

There is I believe ONE post pointing to a reason why this combination may not be safe, the rest of the reasons why are either wrong, or just assumptions on many things that are not factors.

BTW here pintles are used all the time, pulling loads over 40,000kg, and heavy hauls over 100,000kgs even.

 

[td25c]

With the rite truck in front of this trailer I would not worry one bit . https://www.globetrailers.com/30-ton-tag-a-long-2/

Talk of the single axil dump pulling the 20 ton hoe is what threw allot of folks for a loop .

Hook hitches are handy for dump truck trailer combo's hauling a digger behind them on the trailer .

They aint my favorite style due to most of the load is on the tag trailer but in some cases they work fine .

It aint all about how heavy the load is ..... Most of it is where you are going with it .

Please pardon some of us old cat's ... We was doin this before the internet was invented......

Or building the internet ..... LOL !

175 Allis on a cell tower job so people could rap on the net late at night .... LOL !

Man I tell ya what ... It takes allot a diggin , lifting , Concrete & rebar to get everyone to where they can communicate on HEF !

 

[gwhammy]

Here's my take on it after pulling pintles for around 40 years. Get the pintle as close to the rear axle as possible. It's all about leverage. I pull large loads with a triple axle pintle behind a tandem dump. The truck now is a 14 foot bed but enough room for 15 foot dump bed. the pintle plate goes between the bolts on the rear spring hanger, close as I could get it the the brake chambers. N14 cummins with 9 speed. Pulls great.

Last truck I had would barely clear a 13 foot bed with a m11 and 7 speed. Trailer was a tandem axle. 963 at around 42,000 made for a bad ride. If you pulled it up where it needed to be the front was light.
A light single axle truck is going to be hard to balance a big load right on a tandem axle pintle.

 

[Junkyard]

I have enough arguing and debates at home with three teenage daughters. Sure as heck don't need it here. You asked for advice. You can gracefully accept it and do what you please. No need to argue each and every point we make. Take it for what's it worth and go on. One of these days you'll post and really need our help. How far do you think you'll get after this thread?

Furthermore, how do WE know if you have the slightest clue as to what you're doing? That $hit works both ways.

Junkyard out! (Mic drop)

 

[DMiller]

Have welded the mounting plates for six bolt pintles to truck frames to setting up the hitches and the jaw control air to keep the hitch from slamming since 1978. We did not situate them all that close to the third members was unnecessary and hard to work around. Truck is short WB it is NOT a recommend to set a 20 ton load behind it, a Long WB single axle dump with nose weight is a good candidate as with a short WB you get nose lift, control of steering on grade gets dicey, panic stops become jackknifes as you cannot correct fast enough. There is a reason yard mules only carry a four bolt pintle, not rated for that kind of load and why tandem dumps are equipped with them, ballast and balance.

Pintle plates need to be located and plated to the corners of the frame, back braced into the frame for stability, welding inside the frame or notching to get inside the spring hangers just moved the weight distribution OFF the spring hanger. There is a reason for not doing that, is based on bridge booms and cranes, move the load/balance point off the tip down onto the boom and the boom folds up, same holds true for frames.

 

[td25c]

Great points about hitch mounting , geometry ,wheelbase & load position on the trailer DMiller & gwhammy !

Have 4 hitch points on the back of the KW . Pintle , fifth wheel, gooseneck ball behind the fifth wheel & sling . Use them all but for heavy tongue weights I like the fifth wheel hitch the best .

 

[DMiller]

Don't think you trailer pile is tall enough yet td!! What you doing with the frameless dump to have it blocked that way?

 

[td25c]

We were removing the dump cylinder . Truck driver went to let the bed down and it locked up on the first stage .

 

[gwhammy]

Turning on a gravel off a highway and sliding the front tires the first time is a eye opening experience.

I would really like to have a heavier trailer but probably going to a lowboy next. Pintles are real handy with a dump truck in my business but a couple of my machines are marginal on a pintle hitch trailer.

 

[Willie B]

May I ask a stupid question?
What is a frameless dump?

 

[Shimmy1]

May I ask a stupid question?
What is a frameless dump?

A frame dump trailer is basically a dump truck without the cab/engine/steer axle, the front sits on the fifth wheel of a tractor. A frameless dump has a much lighter subframe that pivots at about the halfway point of the box. The cylinder pushes up on the front of the box, and it lifts off the subframe while hingeing at the pivot. When you're fully raised, the front trailer axle is off the ground.

 

[crane operator]

I was always told there's two kinds of frameless dumps, those that have gone over, and those that are going to go over.

 

[Willie B]

WOW! I need to get out more! In my corner of the country there ain't no such thing. Never seen even a picture! If that thing ever comes to VT they'll put it in a museum. For real, they make such a thing??? Evidently flat lands aren't a myth.

Thanks for not poking fun.

Willie

 

[DMiller]

Frameless started many years ago, think I saw my first around 80 or 81, were not popular as did/do have a tendency to tip like a sleeping cow.

First frameless were steel, I believe the first aluminum units came about mid 80's.