Perkins 1104D-E44TA

[veikolaht]

Hi!

We have a car baler with Perkins engine - it is not earthmoving equipment, so if it is in wrong category, please, just lift it to the right.
The problem is, that when we start pressing of cars, in the beginning, when engine and other things are cold, when hydraulic oil pumps will be "connected" and fully opened, after about three seconds of hard pressing the ECM (Electronic Control Module) decides to reduce of rated power. The smoke coming from exhaust at hard pressing time is quite black. Now helps restart of engine only. After the engine and other things get warm/hot, everything works perfect and almost no black smoke.
Video is here : https://www.dropbox.com/s/h7shngetaujfcd0/Perkins 1104D-E44TA.mp4?dl=0

 

[Brodiesel]

Whats the engine coolant temp? Derate is sometimes a function of the ECM to protect the engine if its overheating, measure temperature at different points to make sure thermostat is opening, water pump is flowing, radiator isn't plugged, etc.

 

[veikolaht]

Thank you, Brodiesel!
How can it be overheating, when engine is cold? Should water pump work or not work irrespective of water/coolant temperature?
But yes, ECM gave a fail code about coolant.
After the problem started about 6 month ago we have changed injectors (without installing of trim files), air filter, fuel filters, coolant temperature sensor.
The ECM showed during a few last months diagnostic flash codes 112 (Injector #2) and 168 (coolant temperature sensor). The flash codes were also after everything was changed. I believe they were just logged codes. But, a few days ago, when I checked in the morning diagnostic flash codes before I started the engine, was there no fail codes. So I started an engine for few minutes running idle and then switched to full gas. Next thing I tried first time - on full gas it worked ca 10 minutes (without any problems or flashing of "Shutdown" light) and then only we tried to press a car (on the video above), but still „Shutdown“ flashing light appeared and this time without any registered fail codes. It can be, that ECM needs more seconds of fail extending before it register that. I will try to find it out.
Some days an engine had working idle many hours before pressing, bit still it did not help. That day was enough to press one car only and then press started working normally, but when it was colder outside, it took much longer.
10 minutes working of full gas - I think engine is not cold anymore, but hydraulic oil is. If the main hydraulic oil pump is problematic and encumber an engine, I do not know how ECM understands that and reduces the power. Sensors, where ECM gets information from, are located on the engine only. Which sensor does it? But, of course, it is possible somehow.


Confusing story with many aspects and a lot of information

 

[Brodiesel]

Your story is fine,

I watched the video again, its seems like its a hydraulic pump flow problem. Maybe someone else will watch your video and provide some input. Have you tried letting the machine warm up a little longer? I wouldn't put such a load on it so soon after starting it.

Good to know for you- I believe this engine crosses over as a CAT C4.4 engine. CAT owns this line of Perkins engines.

So like you said, it cant overheat immediately if its cold, maybe its derating because of a certain active code. As for pump, usually with modern electronics there are provisions to control engine RPM based off pump demand. I'm not really sure whats going here but I will see what I can find on SIS for you.

 

[veikolaht]

This main hydraulic pump, piston pump PV080R1L1T1NWLC (information here http://www.hkhydraulic.com/pv080r1l1t1nwlc) gets in 5-10 minutes quite warm while the other three smaller pumps were cold. Started with cold engine and engine run on full gas, no pressing. Maybe it is normal. I have tested it once only, so I cannot say exactly how fast it was. I will do it on the next working day. We will continue to warm up the engine in full gas without pressing and we can keep it on full gas longer.
This CAT C4.4 ACERT engine sounds familiar for me. We had it on the old car baler. But yes, they are similar.

If there were some active fail code now, Perkins SPI2 says, that the indicator lamps must show them. Now the lamps show 551 only and it means no fail codes. There are also other possibilities to read fail codes with computer, but the indicator lamps should do the same work. But like I mentioned before there were fail codes before. How did they come, I can imagine only. Fail code 112 (Injector #2) - the cable to the injector #2 was disconnected about one minute while engine was running and press was pressing. Fail code 168 (Coolant Temperature Sensor) - here I do not have a good explanation, maybe the cable was also disconnected, when we looked after some other problem before, I do not remember now, but actually the sensor itself was not faulty. I changed it, but the new one had the same value of resistance than the old one. How these fail codes disappeared now (they existed many, many weeks), I can also imagine only - maybe if you check them next day before starting the engine, it is like restart for ECM, I do not know. Testing in the future will show that.
The fact is, that a temperature plays a role here.
I use Perkins SPI2, have SIS also but last used it long time ago. If the problem is in the hydraulic system, these two programs probably cannot help as.

 

[veikolaht]

Now is quite difficult to find some symptoms why baler did not work when cold because the temperature outside is +10°C or more and everything works fine.
Piston pump should be in order. It gets hot when engine has ca 2200 rpm and no pressing but the processes there inside of the pump are extreme as well. At least it gives necessary pressure and amount of hydraulic oil.
When I cleaned hydraulic oil filters, I found some pieces of sealing and a thin 3-4 cm long curved chip of metal (is not on the photo) so it means some aggregate on the baler should not work correctly but so far we have not found which one.

So if not before then in autumn we can look for a solution for the problem again.

 

[Brodiesel]

Well that doesnt look good.

 

[veikolaht]

Hi again!
Is the turbo sound on this video OK?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7lifi13gtnforq0/turboUntitled.mp4?dl=0
The engine has ran 15-30 min. idle and this sound is in the beginning of pressing only, later disappears.