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on site stall test without gauges

student

New Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
4
Location
uk
hi , new to this so bear with me, a dozer, i want to know what the problem with drive is , so i decide to stall test it! i dont have hydraulice gauges or specs and have to make a diagnosis for head office, do they need to send out a new transmission , torque convertor or is it more serious,
so im sure i can some way stall test it and tell from engine note and jerk of machine a quick diagnosis ??can i ?? and what symptons am i looking for ,
im thinking it jerks forward at full revs with brakes on , so alls good
it dosent jerk forward so maybe tc or drive clutches
engine revs high (like clutch slipping ) so it could be tc?
thoughts please , as this is the type of question im going to have to answer for exam
cheers:confused:
 

Nige

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
29,377
Location
G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
OMG, you don't want much do you ..?

First up, IMO you need to know (or be told) what symptoms the machine is displaying. If someone expects you to even have a shot at diagnosing a drive train in a dozer without access to gauges or a Service Manual then they need to tell you exactly how it is behaving.

Some examples could be: -

1. No drive in all forward speeds.
2. No drive in all reverse speeds.
3. No drive in a single speed (say 1st) in both directions.
4. Converter oil overheating when pushing against a full blade.
5. Engine coolant overheating when pushing against a full blade.

1, 2, & 3 are likely transmission problems.
4 & 5 could be either converter or possibly engine.

Assuming it is a "conventional" machine with a torque divider/torque converter and powershift transmission (not hydrostatic, they're a whole different kettle of prawns) you need to know enough about the machine & its' systems to decide if a stall test is even possible without access to test gear. Some electronically-controlled machines can't be stalled at all without a laptop and going into "Test" mode.

Here's how I would stall test a converter, assuming it's a conventional tractor. Let's say it's a Cat D10R, I can give you some numbers for that. If you're really cheeky you could say you'd get into the Monitor System and be able to check the turbo boost pressure while you were testing the machine. We're assuming here that none of the conditions 1, 2, or 3 as described above are present that would point straight to a transmission problem: -

1. Start up engine, allow all systems (engine & power train at least) to warm up to operating temperature.
2. Accelerate the engine to maximum RPM on no load (trans in neutral) & note how many RPM this is. For D10R should be around 2110 +/-20.
3. Apply the service brake & release the park brake.
4. At Low Idle engage 3rd speed forward. If transmission has more than 3 speeds use top gear whatever that is. You should "feel" the transmisssion engage.
5. Accelerate the engine to the maximum RPM it will give you with the converter stalled while still holding the service brakes on. This will be less than above, probably about 400-450RPM less. Note the RPM. For D10R should be 1646 +/-20 RPM.
6. Note how fast the TC temperature gauge rises. When the High TC temp alarm goes off, select neutral and keep the engine at High Idle RPM with no load to cool the power train until the converter temp gauge comes back into the normal range.

If the tractor had good drive in 3rd speed (this means transmission clutches are not slipping) but stalled at comparatively high RPM (say 1700+) compared to High Idle I would be looking at the converter.
If the tractor had good drive in 3rd speed but stalled at comparatively low RPM (say <1600) compared to High Idle I would be looking at the engine, maybe the turbo boost boost pressure would be the first point to start.
The time taken for the TC to generate a high temp alarm can also give an indication of converter slippage.

Having said all the above I think my answer on a test paper to such a question would be something like - "If you want this machine troubleshooting correctly & completely and not just opinions then I need to have the correct tools for the job". That would be especially true if Head Office was going to use your findings to send out whatever major component might be needed to fix this tractor .........
 
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tctractors

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
2,412
Location
Worc U.K.
Stall test info, Nige did post a very good bit of script, as its the U.K. the dozer is possibly a D6H/R as they are the common banger, to test the clutches within the transmission whip up the floor plate, look down at the drive shaft from the torque case to the back case and select F3-R3 drive positions if the shaft stops rotating whilst you press on the brake pedal stalling the torque then you know the direction clutches are good also the 3rd speed clutch is good, repeat this test in the lower speeds but use caution as the tractor will drive through the brakes at high engine speed, I often test transmissions on CAT's without poking my gauge in as I do plenty of them, its possible to take off the back plate on the rear of the trans' and get the driver to activate the trans moving the speed control, this will soon show you if a clutch seal has blown, the other common thing is oil filled converter housing usualy caused by bearing failed in the can, you will need a good long thin socket to undo the centre bolts on em.
If its a Komatsu tractor, look at the hour meter first, then post up the correct mod and serial no detail
 

tctractors

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
2,412
Location
Worc U.K.
Graham, I am well up for that, The dozer owners around me only let me re-seal the leaking piston seals and want it working again for the next day, in the U.S. they do the proper re-build, the last D6 Hi-Drive torque I did, the owner had me strip another torque out of a fire damaged tractor and make something out of the 2 chunks.
student, the inside roof area on Hi-Drives has all the hoisting points in for the torque, trans' pump and hydraulic pump.
 
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