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Old paddle pans

DPete

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
1,677
Location
Central Ca.
I've had to push my 623's in sand but just for added traction not pushing like an open bowl. Operators took the normal cut an I'd just keep the rolling with my 6R.
 

Tones

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
3,059
Location
Ubique
Occupation
Ex land clearing contractor, part-time retired
Pretty amazing how efficient those electric drive WABCO's were with the hancock elevating bowl chowing down the dirt .
Bearing in mind that I have never operated a Wabco scraper larger than a 111A but have worked with plenty of 222's, I think the 2 things they had going for them was 1 the Hancock bowel and 2 the Allison trany with the load mode which allowed more engine power to drive the generator. Since the Wabco were built hydraulics have come a long way from driving things with a gear pump.
Hence my comment up thread about fitting transmission pumps to drive the elevator. For the last 9 years I have owned and operated a forestry mulcher with the same type of drive system which works a darn sight harder than the elevator on a scraper with no big problems in that part of the machine. I would love to see more Wabcos running today, they were away ahead of there time and Cat hasn't court up yet IMHO. :)
 

td25c

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2009
Messages
5,250
Location
indiana
Push loading will just jam up the elevator, but... I have pushed elevating machines in slimy mud/clay or saturated sand. The machine was at wide open throttle with the trans in neutral to put maximum power to the elevator and Mr. push cat guy was instructed to be very gentle pushing and watch the elevator output. Twin engine Wabco's had this built in feathering ability where you could load very fast in a short distance using full power from the front engine and using the rear to just nudge the machine forward as the elevator pulled material in.

Yep , They aint made for wet or soft ground conditions . One of the few drawbacks of a scraper .

If there is a soft spot on a project a scraper will find it .

We did a new approach for a trucking company connecting the driveway to the main road . Used the WABCO C Pull to haul in & compact the clay fill . I asked manager how " tight " the gravel road & parking lot were as we would be using it as a " haul road " ....... He said the road is solid with 24 hour truck traffic plus they added stone & used a roller to pack it in . " OK ... Cool ! "

After about 10 loads the WABCO located the shop's septic tank ..... It was in the middle of the road . I kept noticing a depression building in that area and finally a hole opened up . " Sorry bout that " ..... " You boy's gonna need a new septic tank ".:D

Loaded motor scraper has that old time down deep compaction ability :)
 

RZucker

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
4,077
Location
Wherever I end up
Occupation
Mechanic/welder
Bearing in mind that I have never operated a Wabco scraper larger than a 111A but have worked with plenty of 222's, I think the 2 things they had going for them was 1 the Hancock bowel and 2 the Allison trany with the load mode which allowed more engine power to drive the generator. Since the Wabco were built hydraulics have come a long way from driving things with a gear pump.
Hence my comment up thread about fitting transmission pumps to drive the elevator. For the last 9 years I have owned and operated a forestry mulcher with the same type of drive system which works a darn sight harder than the elevator on a scraper with no big problems in that part of the machine. I would love to see more Wabcos running today, they were away ahead of there time and Cat hasn't court up yet IMHO. :)

Quite honestly the Wabco 3phase system was more efficient than any high pressure hydraulic system ever could be. The Wabco 252 had a hydraulic drive elevator with a 2 speed Sundstrand piston pump. It never impressed me, other than how well it could blow hoses.
I would much rather troubleshoot a nice clean electrical system than change hoses and pumps on a high pressure hydraulic system. But that's just me.
 

td25c

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2009
Messages
5,250
Location
indiana
Quite honestly the Wabco 3phase system was more efficient than any high pressure hydraulic system ever could be. .

The Old Man & I were having a similar conversation today . Electricity is pretty efficient . Can you imagine running hydraulic lines to each home to power the appliances for the everyday needs of a family ?

The old boys at Westinghouse got it figured out early on .:cool:
 

RZucker

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
4,077
Location
Wherever I end up
Occupation
Mechanic/welder
The Old Man & I were having a similar conversation today . Electricity is pretty efficient . Can you imagine running hydraulic lines to each home to power the appliances for the everyday needs of a family ?

The old boys at Westinghouse got it figured out early on .:cool:

Actually we have old R.G. Letourneau to thank for that... The Westinghouse part was The Air brake division, go figure that one. I never ran a Wabco that had much for brakes. :eek:
 

td25c

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2009
Messages
5,250
Location
indiana
WABCO ... Westinghouse Air Brake Company .

They were in to a little bit of everything at the time .
 

John C.

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,865
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
I had three C pulls to rob parts out of to keep one machine running. I'd rather replace a hydraulic hose than string wire rope through three sets of shivs because the limit switch didn't work. I'd rather have a power shift machine with a torque converter than change big clutch discs every three to five weeks of operation. I'd rather have a steering wheel than a toggle switch that would through you all over the cab when making minor steering adjustments. I'd rather deal with hydraulic oil than having to polish sets of contact points trying to find where a dead leg was feeding a motor. I'd rather deal with gauges to trouble shoot a hydraulic problem than a multimeter trying to find a short in a hot circuit that could physically through me off the machine.

I made a point of spending half a day watching those things get cut up and had a smile the rest of the day.
 

fuggly

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
45
Location
Central VA
Thanks to all of you for your help. I haven't heard back on my offer on the 615, but am going to look at a couple of 412's that were parked running a couple of years ago. Owner retired. Anyone have any input on these machines? I expect they will be DT466 engines, not sure of the transmissions, Clark?
Any particular weak points or problem areas on these? Strong points? Thanks again for all your help/opinions/experience.
 

Tones

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
3,059
Location
Ubique
Occupation
Ex land clearing contractor, part-time retired
I expect they will be DT466 engines, not sure of the transmissions, Clark?
Any particular weak points or problem areas on these? Strong points? Thanks again for all your help/opinions/experience.
Allison trany if I remember correctly. The 412 was a good reliable machine in it's day. They are much better riding than a 613.
 

fuggly

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
45
Location
Central VA
Thanks again to all of you for your input and help. I bought a pair of 412B's that have locked engines and need a few tires that need replacing. They were running well a couple of years ago, but are seized at present. I'm thinking about shooting Marvel Mystery Oil in through the injector ports and try to bar them over after they sit a few days. Around here mechanical 466's are still available in junkyards and a kit from the dealer is about $2,500.
What I'm trying to get a handle on is what else the Twin Disc 4 speed powershift transmission may have been used in. I am told, and believe, that they are good, but Trans Axle quoted me $9,900 if I need a soft rebuild with another $7,000 for a torque converter.

Thanks again for the benefit of your experience. Merry Christmas!
 
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