Old Galion starter

[Rldsl]

I purchased a Galion crane about a month ago that I have been restoring blind, (working on getting some manuals) but I had ordered a replacement starter for the old International engine ( oddly they had one listed for the crane at rate electric when I ordered it, but not now,)the starter I got is s physical match ,but only spins the engine around 8 rpms off a 1000 CA batt.
Did these cranes use a starter different from the ones used on other applications due to the pump being constantly driven off the crank, and would anyone happen to have the proper part number for one of those? (Preferrably a gear reduction type
Right now I'm on the edge of starting this beast, but, it's just not spinning fast enough to fire. ( it had actually been sort of running before the old starter melted down, so I know it can do it, it just needs a faster starter)
Thanks, Robert

 

[lantraxco]

Check the new starter tag, it may be 24 volt instead of 12?

 

[Rldsl]

I was halfway wondering if the original starter was 24v (since the numbers ,"24" show up at the end of the part number, but I found no evidence of a series+parallel switch anywhere, so unless they just run 24v into a resistor to get 12 to the coil, or a 24v coil I don't know about and everything is wired wrong... I'm all ears on this one.. Including as to what engine for sure this pre historic 125 ( I know for sure now it is a 125¡has in it. This one is so old it doesn't have a cab, the delco ignition dates between 1933-56
Thanks

 

[Jonas302]

I thinks Lantraxco is saying make sure the replacement starter is not 24 volt as that would be the most logical reason for it turning so slow even could have been mis boxed
Komatsu adsorbed Galion I know RMS in Shokopee MN had some parts information but not much available

 

[Ronsii]

Also, you say the old starter melted down... depending on how this went you may have other wiring issues now or maybe something else is not quite right that contributed to the first starter demise...

How about some pics or at least a wiring diagram of how things are setup.


Ps. we have had brand new starters appear to go bad when a brush sticks and slows it down to a crawl, have you tried giving it a few gentle whacks to the end with the brushes...

 

[BobCatBob]

If you don't have the manuals, contact Aryhead in our forums .....he's top notch.

I'd also call Contractor Cranes in Houston Texas.....they've supplied me with almost every OEM part I've been in need of (they'll have the specs on your starter, likely have one on the shelf).

 

[Rldsl]

I finally got some manuals in and I brought the old starter to my old faithful rebuilder of the last 25+ years and found a few things. The starter was WAY wrong for the engine, , along with some broken parts inside. He's redoing it in a hi torque 24v configuration ( and if that doesn't do it, I've found a gear reduction 24v that will fit the thing . I also found it was supposed to have a 4d-lt batt, one of those industrial monsters with both terminals on the same end and a 270 reserve capacity even the 1000 CA truck batt I have in there has about half the reserve capacity, in my experience with large engines, that number generally makes the difference between start or no start., needless to say, I'm rigging up for a total of 4 of those 1000 CA batts ( 2pairs running through a series parallel switch) with that setup I ough to be able to run down the road at 20 mph on the starter
On a more serious note, I found a number of wires with heavily corroded ends to the point of inducing large resistance, a half cooked fusable link on main power line ( my manual shows a circuit breaker but it doesn't go back quite as far as mine it starts at 2985 and I have 1186, thankfully they changed very little, I replaced the wires and installed a panel breaker) direct shorts on old lines that were hard drawing current every time the switch was opened. Quite frankly it was a miracle this thing ran at all when I bought it

At least I was finally able to match the engine for sure, I got an IH 264-6 manual and it was a hit!, only drawback is the manual was written for combines etc and no information on how to line up timing marks on that critter... But this too shall pass

 

[BobCatBob]

Specs on Crane?

 

[Delmer]

If this is a 264 cubic inch gas engine, that's not a large engine. It should start on any battery that will start a Yugo. It sounds like you're complicating things way more than you need to.

 

[Rldsl]

Engine isn't very big, but I has a massive 2 stage hydraulic pump permanently attached to the front of the crank. When adjusting the valves with plugs out on that engine you can normally turn I with the fan like most, no dice with this beast it's trying to push insane gallons of fluid through the system at the same time, have to turn it with the starter, even with plugs out. My neighbor has worked with a lot of heavy equipment for years and he told me any he ran across wih that pump setup were a beast to start and generally had hefty 24v systems.my starter rebuilder concurred, although he said he split 6-12 v systems with huge batts were also very effective

 

[lantraxco]

Unless it's down near freezing you should not have that much drag from the pumps. Guessing it's an open center system, most likely suspect would be a valve spool not centering due to sticking or something loose or weak in the centering springs.

 

[BobCatBob]

Have you disconnected the crank from the pump? (Take about 10 mins, 8 socket head cap screws on the U joint).

Once disconnected, you should be able to spin the pump by hand with little resistance. If you're having trouble with the starter on a gas engine....getting enough RPM...separate the pump and engine.

My 150a is 12v.....I'm not sure they made any of the older cranes (Model 80, 125 or 150) with 24v. When Komatsu bought them out, they may have converted to 24v. Does the multi gauge in the indicator panel show this for you? Mine only went to 12v.

 

[Rldsl]

According to rebuilder, aparant problem is starter is supposed to be a high torque type, but neither the one on it or the replacement sold for it met those requirements, , armature was tiny compared to one that went in it, fresh starter weighs darn near twice as much ( just picked it up) well see what happens.
My gauge panel is basically unreadable, I need to replace all gauges, , this thin is serial no 1186 best I can tell that makes it the 186th one off the line, there's a number of things on this one that are a tad more primitive than what is shown in the manuals

 

[BobCatBob]

Been there brother....mine is #4510. Do you know the model? The ID tag is on the floor just left of the seat. Take some pictures of your machine and post here. There are a lot of Galion operators, "mechanics" in here....love to see these old beasts resurrected.

 

[Delmer]

I don't think you'll be disappointed following the rebuilder's advice. I've heard the "high torque starter" story before, but it was always in such bizarre circumstances so I always chalked it up to too many drugs or something :beatsme

I still say a 12V starter would work to start that engine, but maybe not any starter that will fit?

 

[Rldsl]

The rebuilder found marks on the starter that were from a boneyard. It likely came off a bus, and aparantly the high torque model is now unobtanium so he had to custom make one. There is a universal gear reduction job available in 12 or 24 v that hsas s head with multiple mounting holes..that's the next step , ( I hope I'm joking IIT actually started on the original one but it was fried inside)

 

[BobCatBob]

Just found your starter....a little over $100.

https://jet.com/product/detail/28ab...15&gclid=CJiolJzdmtACFcgLMgod62wHog&gclsrc=ds

 

[Rldsl]

Just found your starter....a little over $100.


https://jet.com/product/detail/28ab...15&gclid=CJiolJzdmtACFcgLMgod62wHog&gclsrc=ds

That's the critter I bought from rareelectric ....,it has already burned up, I got half a dozen start attempts out of it. When I figure out how to upload pics from my phone you'll see the armature section is about 2 inches shorter than the original, and the rebuilder ended up rigging an armature that was about an inch or so larger in diameter and had to custom wind the coil to fit in the case. The thing weighs about twice as much as that one rare has..
I spent half the day making new wires yesterday to rig a series parallel switch till I ran out of light, about to go over and finish up and hopefully fire it. . ( it's been over 30 years since I've fooled with a S-p switch, it's a blast wiring one up cold with lousy instructions)

 

[BobCatBob]

Wow! Have you bar'd the engine over to see if there is an issue with it? I would definitely disconnect the Crank shaft from the pump....see if either is causing an issue.

 

[Rldsl]

Well the fresh rebuilt starter spins that beast like a maniac. Only problem arose while trying to start, the ballast resistor got cooked from the excess amprage in the system, so back to Napa tomorrow for a heavy duty one. At least it's real close to running now.