Oil for Detroits

[alskdjfhg]

I know your not supposed to run multi-weight in a Detroit.

I didn't know that when I did the change to the upper on my P&H 440TC, so I want to put the right stuff in it. Seems like the right stuff is Delo 100, also seems like it's kinda rare stuff.

Where do the rest of y'all get oil for Detroit? Can you run non Delo 100 40wt?

Only place I could find that has 100 is online from 'West Marine' and before I start ordering oil online, I'd like to know if there is any better option.

As usual thanks for any and all info.

 

[Shimmy1]

I think any brand 40# would be fine, as long as it's a good quality diesel engine oil. You're probably going to have to special order any brand, since there aren't many of those old screamers left.

 

[td25c]

If the store has it on hand I go with strait 30 wt oil . They generally don't so end up putting Shell 15/40 in the Detroit .


I know this is against the grain on oil specifications but it seems to work fine for us .

Main thing is change oil every 100 hours or so . These engines leak a little diesel under the valve cover by nature that thins out the oil over time . Keep an eye on oil pressure at idle , when she drops to 5 psi at idle when hot it's time to change the oil regardless of hours .

My old Boss always said " put something slick in it " ..... That's been my experience as well , they will run on any kind of engine oil .

 

[crane operator]

I order it through my local oreilly's auto parts store. Comes in 1 gal jugs. Sometimes takes a few days

 

[willie59]

The main problem with the 15W/40 oil is the friction modifiers that keep the viscosity of the oil stable across a given temperature range. These friction modifiers break down in the shear stress of the Detroit upper and lower piston ring configuration, these engines have pistons that are very different than pretty much any other diesel engine. Yes, Delo 100 40 weight meets the specs for these engines the best, but what matters is any SAE 40 oil with a sulfated ash content of 1.0% or less. Texaco Ursa meets the spec, and Mobil Delvac 1240 works as well. Yes, these oils are getting scarce as there's not many applications that call for them now days, but as crane op mentioned you can typically order them if you can wait a couple of days.

BTW, Delo 400 SAE 40 is out of spec and so is Rotella SAE 40.

 

[check]

When I worked offshore we put Shell Rotella T15W40 in all the Detroits. We had hundreds of 471's and 671's among others, quite a few 453's, too. No lubrication problems that I was aware of and we sent oil samples to the lab quarterly.


edit: However, few of these engines, which were used mainly in cranes and fire pumps, got more than a couple hundred hours on them a year.

 

[td25c]

Yeah check , currently running Shell 15/40 in the Detroit powered excavator and no issues .

I like the SAE 30 the best , sometimes you can find it at Wall Mart in gallon jugs .

Spotted some at tractor supply . http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/shell-rotellat1-sae-30-diesel-engine-oil-1-gal?cm_vc=-10005

Even show the SAE 40 . http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/shell-rotella-t1-sae-40-engine-oil-1-gal?cm_vc=IOPDP1

 

[alskdjfhg]

Thanks for the info guys, i appreciate it.

Ill start looking and see what I can find.

 

[Birken Vogt]

Years ago the old guys would have jumped all over you for suggesting 15w/40 in a 2 cycle.

They were in their 70s in age back then. Now it is crickets.

I think too many years have gone by but I will be one to say: don't do it. Always straight weight and hopefully something that meets the spec.

 

[Former Wrench]

I like 30 # Dello. It is on the shelf at Costco. The Rotella is good too.

 

[RZucker]

Just my 2 cents regarding oil for 2 stroke Detroits. A few years back I had a customer running a pair of scrapers with 12V71Ts at each end, they stubbornly stuck to Delo 400 15/40 engine oil but continuously complained to me about the oil consumption of the engines (1.5 gal. a day per engine). I finally convinced them to try the Delo 100 40 wt. (90 degree temps). Two oil changes and they were down to 1/2 a gallon per day, and that's not bad for a 525 HP turbo Detroit working it's butt off. So now it's 40wt in the summer and 30wt in the winter. I wonder what the extra gallon per engine per day cost them over the years.

 

[td25c]

Thanks for the info guys, i appreciate it.

Ill start looking and see what I can find.

Yeah , now you also need know about the Detroit " automatic low fuel shutdown system " .

We had one truck today almost get to that stage .

I walked out this morning and noticed a low tire on the Jeep . Fired up the GMC wrecker so I could air up the tire & get on my way .

Only problem was I forgot to shut the GMC off when I pulled out . Got a call from the Old man about noon ...... " Do you have this truck running for any reason " ?

Replied if you don't mind just shutter off before the low fuel system kicks in . LOL !

 

[willie59]

Just my 2 cents regarding oil for 2 stroke Detroits. A few years back I had a customer running a pair of scrapers with 12V71Ts at each end, they stubbornly stuck to Delo 400 15/40 engine oil but continuously complained to me about the oil consumption of the engines (1.5 gal. a day per engine). I finally convinced them to try the Delo 100 40 wt. (90 degree temps). Two oil changes and they were down to 1/2 a gallon per day, and that's not bad for a 525 HP turbo Detroit working it's butt off. So now it's 40wt in the summer and 30wt in the winter. I wonder what the extra gallon per engine per day cost them over the years.

That's my experience as well RZucker, using 15W/40 in these engines will increase oil consumption and will increase slobber from the air box drain lines. I've been preaching this here at HEF for some time, sometimes I wonder if it's worth continuing to beat this drum. No, I don't have empirical study data evidence to prove this, only my personal experience and what I've gained from others, including studies done by Detroit Diesel themselves back when these engines were prevalent and 15W/40 was the oil of the day, they found the same results mentioned. It's just plain and simple, these engines don't like 15W/40. If you want to get the most life and service out of one, stick with the Detroit Diesel Corp specs, SAE 40 with a sulfated ash content of 1.0% or less, that's their recommendation.

 

[RZucker]

That's my experience as well RZucker, using 15W/40 in these engines will increase oil consumption and will increase slobber from the air box drain lines. I've been preaching this here at HEF for some time, sometimes I wonder if it's worth continuing to beat this drum. No, I don't have empirical study data evidence to prove this, only my personal experience and what I've gained from others, including studies done by Detroit Diesel themselves back when these engines were prevalent and 15W/40 was the oil of the day, they found the same results mentioned. It's just plain and simple, these engines don't like 15W/40. If you want to get the most life and service out of one, stick with the Detroit Diesel Corp specs, SAE 40 with a sulfated ash content of 1.0% or less, that's their recommendation.

I grew up in a family of Detroit owners, Worked in the local Detroit dealer in high school, one of Dad's best friends worked his way up to regional manager for Detroit Diesel... So the oil thing has been beaten into my head all my life.
I used to do Allison transmission for a company that had 15 6V53s and 20 6-71s, they ran Sheaffers 40wt and never had an engine problem, then they hired a new service manager that was a Cummins guy and said everything had to run 15/40.... They lost at least two engines a year from stuck rings and torched pistons or liners.

 

[willie59]

then they hired a new service manager that was a Cummins guy and said everything had to run 15/40.... They lost at least two engines a year from stuck rings and torched pistons or liners.

Yep, that's the carnage that's more expensive than the increased oil consumption, and carnage one doesn't notice until the deed is done. I myself have busted down a couple of Detroits that have suffered the same fate, and it ain't the top of the pistons so much, it's the lower rings and mid piston, friction heat welding the lower rings into the piston, mid piston flaming, then the liners go down and it's pretty much a done deal, piston/liner overhaul.

 

[alskdjfhg]

I've been preaching this here at HEF for some time, sometimes I wonder if it's worth continuing to beat this drum.

I say keep preaching. I only realized I shouldn't put multiweight in it from coming across an old post of yours saying so.

 

[td25c]

using 15W/40 in these engines will increase oil consumption and will increase slobber from the air box drain lines. I've been preaching this here at HEF for some time, sometimes I wonder if it's worth continuing to beat this drum.

Keep beating the drum willie .

No one is questioning what you are saying.

My frustration comes form stores not having oil on hand when we walk in to grab it for an oil change . Store might have 2 or 3 gallons of 30 wt on the shelf and there we are . End up going with the 15 /40 shell oil .

So far have not noticed any issues with slobbering , smoke , or oil usage on the excavator . Pretty much run it between 3/4 to full throttle .

My biggest concern on an old Detroit is keeping the engine cool when hogging on a hot day . Old " Boss" always said keep them under 210 F . I keep mine under 200F .

High heat temps will break down oil quick & kill any engine .

We pull the side panels off the HyHoe excavator in hot weather so she gets a little more air to help keep it all cool for the Detroit .

http://www.heavytruckforums.com/showthread.php?263-Some-Holmes-750-action&p=2528&viewfull=1#post2528


Mine are all natural aspirated , they last forever seems like .

Guessing alskdjfhg's upper Detroit in the P&H crane is the same . Engine will idle most of the time and not be subjected to high temps ? There for it's a little more forgiving on type of oil . Put something slick in it .

 

[RZucker]

td, that idling stuff is what will stick the rings worse than anything. check with a local oil jobber and buy the Delo 100 by the drum... Your Detroits will love you. Just sayin'

 

[willie59]

td, that idling stuff is what will stick the rings worse than anything. check with a local oil jobber and buy the Delo 100 by the drum... Your Detroits will love you. Just sayin'

:exactly

 

[kshansen]

td, that idling stuff is what will stick the rings worse than anything. check with a local oil jobber and buy the Delo 100 by the drum... Your Detroits will love you. Just sayin'

I often felt that a Detroit in a crane application was one of the worst ones there was, but they were probably the cheapest option so everyone went to them.

There is a little 3-53 genset that the company I worked for has had for many years. Someone got the idea of using it to power a few lights at night and the block heater on a 3412 Cat genset. Then they wondered why that was the nastiest slobbering engine they ever saw. Probably could have run everything that Detroit powered off a 5,000 watt Honda genset and made the neighbors happy too!