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New John Deere Grader coming.

Discussion in 'Motor Graders' started by D3B Dave, Mar 2, 2017.

  1. ovrszd

    ovrszd Senior Member

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    Friend of mine went from a 140H to a 140M when they first came out. I called him one day while he was running it, had about 25 hours on it. Asked him how he liked it. He said "I just want to burn it". Now, several years later, he can't imagine going back to a rack. :)
     
  2. D3B Dave

    D3B Dave Active Member

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    Sorry for being gone. I talked with the Cat salesman the other day about the spy photos. He said that I could see them but not to post them anywhere. I will catch up with him tomorrow. I will report what they show. He said it was a refitted 870 size machine.

    From what your pictures showed of the Deere, especially the open engine doors, I am willing to look at a new Deere.
     
  3. D3B Dave

    D3B Dave Active Member

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    Got to see the photos of a Deere test mule with twin stick controls. The cab looked the same as current models, still has a square windshield. The controls were a t-stick with buttons and switches. It looked like the operator would rest their hand on top of the sticks. The sticks appeared a little short, made me wonder about the throw and speed of the hydraulics. It is going to be released tomorrow at Conex.
     
  4. ovrszd

    ovrszd Senior Member

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    Friend of mine is going to Conex. I'll post whatever pics my friend comes home with.

    I wish Cat and Deere would join forces and build a Grader. :)

    The Cat salesman, during his "speal" about Cat's attributes went to the rear of the machine and opened the engine cooling fan housing. Said "let me see you do that with your Deere" (you have to unbolt latch on the fan assembly on the Deere to hinge it open). I said why would I need to frequently open the fan assembly? He said "to clean the radiators, Cat anticipated that and made it a simple hand latch system for easy access". I said I don't need to clean the radiators. He said "how do you keep them from plugging with debris if you don't clean them"? I said the Deere engine fan automatically reverses itself, can be computer controlled to do it at a frequency of your choice. I run mine on 30 minute cycle time. I then opened my side panels so the radiators could be viewed. The Deere radiators, with 1300hrs were cleaner than the Cat radiators with 80hrs. He changed the subject. The Cat rep took pictures. :)
     
  5. Fatgraderman

    Fatgraderman Well-Known Member

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    Looks like the new one is a 622G. A little info about the left joystick control here- It's all over FB

    and right
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  6. Fatgraderman

    Fatgraderman Well-Known Member

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    You know, one issue I have with some of this advanced stuff, would be the they make it easier and easier to inadvertently bump something and have it move on you. The conventional controls, it's too easy to accidentally hit the diff lock switch while trying to get turned around. This setup, it could be anything.
     
  7. Graderfan1981

    Graderfan1981 Senior Member

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  8. ovrszd

    ovrszd Senior Member

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    Having ran the Cat M and the JD GP models and preferring the Cat version I like the direction this has gone.

    BIG advantage to Deere is the roller wheels. This allows metered movement. I like that.

    I also greatly prefer eliminating the rotational twisting of the joystick for a function. I found it too easy to unknowingly rotate the joysticks on the M when I didn't intend to.

    Disappointment is it appears you would have to lift the weight off your forearm on the armrest to raise/lower the blade? It appears your forearm weight is going to rest on the padded armrest similar to the M setup. With the M, you use your wrist to push/pull the joystick for blade lift. On this system it appears you have to slide your arm? Maybe I'm not seeing it right? Maybe it's not that big of a deal. I watched the videos each twice. Looked like every time he demonstrated the blade lift/lower function his arm slid on the armrest. That would get old.

    Thank you very much for posting these videos. Good stuff.

    Assuming they still offer a rack version? My friend is at Conex now. I'll text him to get all the info he can. Thanks again for the videos!!!
     
  9. D3B Dave

    D3B Dave Active Member

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    That is what I meant by the sticks being short. It appeared as though the arm would have to slide back and forth to work the control.

    I will wait and see how long it will take Deere to get a demo model to us. Won't make a judgment with out sitting in one. For now the Cat M is ahead of Deere.
     
  10. ovrszd

    ovrszd Senior Member

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    Sounds like Deere is going to offer three options. Normal rack. Finger tip controls. New Joystick controls. So, for example, a 670G would be rack. 670GP would be fingertip. 620G would be joystick. The first digit still designates size. The last digit still designates AWD or not. The Alpha character designates standard rack (G) or Grade Pro (GP) fingertip controls in the 70 series. 20 series designates joystick.

    Correct that assumption if found to be inaccurate please. :)

    I agree with Dave, I prefer the M series joysticks over the Deere GP fingertip controls.
     
  11. CAT140H

    CAT140H Well-Known Member

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    Anyone had a chance to operate the new Joystick control Deere Grader yet?
     
  12. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    I don't know about the new units but on the older units with the joy sticks I heard about shoulder problems. The operators I've talked to didn't like that they had to have their elbows either directly below or behind their shoulders in order to operate the implements. In looking at the videos I kind of see their issue for the first time. I thought there would be plenty of adjustment so your elbows would be forward of your shoulders. In the video is shows the demonstrator with his upper arms straight up and down from his shoulders. Maybe he set it up this way for the camera?
     
  13. ovrszd

    ovrszd Senior Member

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    Not sure what you mean by older joystick units??

    Are you talking about Cat M joysticks?

    Are you talking about Deere armrest controls?
     
  14. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Whatever the operators were talking about. Most of the counties on the east side of this state tried out the Deere graders and went back to the Cats as soon as the contracts ran out. The ops I talked to complained about sore shoulders and stiff necks. The only thing they missed about the Deere was the steering wheel over the Cat.
     
  15. cuttin edge

    cuttin edge Senior Member

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    I've never tried the joy sticks yet, but I can't see there being much different comfort wise compared to an excavator, as long as the armrests are adjustable. The Màintainer I run has controls in a position low on either side of the seat, and my shoulders do get sore after a while. All blade functions are on my left hand from the outside towards my leg are....Swing, sideshift, roll, leftside blade, right side blade. Bucket, boom, auxiliary hydraulics, and ripper are on the right. My left shoulder gets really stiff after 14 hrs of grading. I have often figured Deere armrest controls would be similar.
     
  16. D3B Dave

    D3B Dave Active Member

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    Well a new Cat 120M2 was delivered today. After reviewing the new Deere 622G, it became apparent that it was the same old machine, just with updated pilot controls. Still has poor visibility down to the blade. Deere needs to redesign their Graders, and make them more friendly to operate.

    We priced a 622G and a 120M2. I was happy when Cat was a little cheaper due to a better trade in price on the old machine.

    Ran the 120M2 for a few hours today to check the operation. All work correctly. As I have operated new 120M2's this was not my first time in one. There is not much that I do not like about the 120M2. My little buddy has made himself at home. Cat 120M2 004.JPG Cat 120M2 007.JPG
     
  17. ovrszd

    ovrszd Senior Member

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    Congrats on the new machine!!!! What's important is that it suits you!!!! We each adapt to things differently. That's why there's more than one machine built and sold.

    It was a 120M2 that I demo'd last Fall. Following is my "bad" list and "good" list. All of this compared to my current JD770G.

    Good:
    fast hydraulics at idle
    Auto Center articulation
    Selectable blade lift speed
    Convenient machine controls
    Good moldboard visibility at heel end of blade


    Bad:
    Rear view mirror visibility horrible
    Front tire visibility horrible
    Poor storage space in cab
    Front tire side drift bad
    Brakes unpredictable and noisy
    Grader bounce
    huge split between 4th and 5th gears
    Moldboard height too short
    Cruise control speed change too big
    Selectable blade lift speed is too complicated to change frequently
    Under powered
     
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  18. Graderfan1981

    Graderfan1981 Senior Member

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    I hope that John Deere will place soon more infomations and Pdf brochures from their new types, i have find nothing from the new ones yet on their homepage.
     
  19. D3B Dave

    D3B Dave Active Member

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    Yes, that's why they make so many. I have been in a Galion, Champion, Komatsu, Deere, Volvo, New Holland, Fiat Allis/Allis Chalmers, and various Cat's. I can honestly say I like the current version of M2's the best. For me the good far out weights the bad. In a days time I will cover 20% to 25% more roads than in any of the others. I like all of the controls being in may hands constantly. Them seen intuitive.

    I was hoping that Deere truly was redesigning the 670 - 770 series to match the ease of operation and visibility of the M's, but they did not. Deere only changed the controls to a twin stick pattern, not the whole machine. To each his own, I do like a Deere excavator over a Cat any day. Deere finish Dozers are good too, I like the balance.

    I am curious, when you tried an M2, did you adjust the mirrors out from the delivered position. That is the first thing I do in a new machine. When Cat delivers a new machine they are set in so far you only see the cab, not what is behind you. I adjust the swing arms out till I can see the ground beside the rear tires. The mirrors will get close to the doors, I set the right mirror out more that the lift. I do this because when I clean a wet ditch, I reverse the blade and grade in reverse to keep the tandems dry. That and I always enter and exit from the left side.

    I will agree the fronts tire visibility is bad.

    The cab does lack space. When I am in an M2, I have to take a smaller lunch cooler.. My Beagle always rides with me and in an M2 the only space for him is under the right side on the seat. He does have a good view though.

    The side drift is noticeable. I just give it some crab steer. It will change the thrust on the bit and help to run straight.

    The brakes are a little different. Every M I have been in they seamed soft.

    I wonder if you are talking about the bounce during roading or when spreading at speed. I regardless of which grader I am in, I always measure the circumference of each rear tire. Then adjust tire pressure to make all on them match, regardless of what pressure is in each tire as long as the roll out is the same on all drive tires. All tires being the same pressure does not mean they all travel the same distance per roll. It keeps the tandem from trying to drive the tires the same distance. I check the roll out about every 250 hrs.

    If your are talking about bounce when speed spreading a windrow, I found that when it starts to bounce, the throttle is opened wide up. It keeps the governor from bouncing, making the bounce worst. The newest of the M2's have a program and bounce sensor, Cat calls it Grade Control. A sensor detects when it starts to bounce and de-rates the engine till the bounce stops.

    There is a big split between 4th and 5th. Usually when I go from 4th to 5th I am on my way to 8th.

    Never noticed the size of the moldboard.

    The console button changes the rpm's 100 up per click, and the control lever button drops rpm's 25 per click.

    I never change the control speed, Just set on fast ( coarse) and leave it.

    VHP's are varied from 145 in lower speeds to 174 in high speed. Never noticed a lack of power, just an occasional loss of traction, unless the tires were VUT's. They seem to grip good,


    I would like to see Cat protect all of the exposed wiring harness for the lights. While I try to stay away from trees, I have always thought about a harness getting snagged.

    I would like a little more ground clearance between the tandems. If the machine is equipped with rear ripper plumbing, then there is a very low hanging skid plate.

    These are just my opinions, of course yours may vary.

    Dave
     
  20. ovrszd

    ovrszd Senior Member

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    Good report Dave.

    What is the reason you cover 20-25% more road in a day using the Cat?

    If you adjust the mirrors out so the rear visibility matches Deere you cannot open/close the doors. Problem is the bar the mirror head fastens to is too short.

    I believe the front end drift and bounce are related. I think it's inherent in the frame design. I believe Cat knows this and their answer is "grade control". Take the control away from the operator and self correct. Not required on Deere.

    I didn't know that about the cruise control settings. I'll try that next time I'm in one. I try to be as productive as possible. The 100rpm jump up is sometimes too much.

    The 12M2 is noticeably less powerful than the Deere 700 series. I would compare it closer to a Deere 600 series.

    I noticed less clearance under the Deere is the G series over previous models. There is more chassis overhang behind the tandems also. This is because they moved the fuel tank to the rear, under the radiators. I like the convenience of filling the tank. And I like the security of having the tank protected. Just noticed the clearance issues when going from the D model to G model.

    Thanks again for the dialogue Dave!!!