Need engine help - perkins / CAT 3CYL engine won't start

[thepumpguysc]

Take an injector OUT, hook it back up to the line and crank the engine.. Does the injector fire??
DO NOT get your hands or any body part close to the spray.. JUST WATCH from a distance..
ANY pump shop can rebuild that pump.. they're VERY common..
& just because the GP's are getting voltage doesn't mean they're working.. take'm out and test individually..

 

[Delmer]

To test the glow plugs, disconnect the wire and check them each with an ohm meter, should be a low number and close to each other, if you have a cheap multi meter it will basically be 0-1, but not open/infinite.

 

[thepumpguysc]

here we go again.. hahaha [delmer]
If it fires the injector and your getting white smoke.. its either a cold compression or the timing is way out.. I find it awful strange that it WILL start sometimes & run good.. I've seen sheared keys on the pump camshafts before, I've seen bearings go/gone on pump camshafts before, but never one that would go back to the original spot and run good..
One more thing.. or 2 more.. is the inlet banjo bolt CLEAR?? If your just breaking it loose and haven't actually TAKEN IT OUT, do it..
I've seen things make it thru the line & end up in the bolt or the pump inlet itself..
Has the pump ever been removed??.. it looks like a new pump.. IF YOU HAVENT removed it and actually seen the condition of the pump camshaft, you might want to consider that also.. and check the end play of the pump cam also.. and check for stuck rollers on the bottom of the pump.. We're running out of things to check..
I might have missed it, but did you try to start it w/ the solenoid OUT.. not just checked BUT OUT??
You might be dropping voltage while cranking.. just remove it for diagnosis purposes..

 

[DIYDAVE]

Don't preheat longer than 10 seconds or you will blow the fuse. I take it you have replaced the fuel filter, and pumped up with the primer. I'll look through the manual, again. I have one of these little asv rc30's and it has been a good little workhorse. How many hours do you have on it? With mine it needed a pump rebuild, at about 2100 hrs, there was a big seepage leak under the 5 cornered bolts on the pump. Rebuild was about $100/hole, plus a little for parts. Easy, easy pump R&R, about a half hour, each way. Its a cartridge pump, metal gasket thickness is how you time it. Hardest part is the by feel installation of the rack lever.

 

[Delmer]

here we go again.. hahaha [delmer]

Yeah, he tested the compression so I guess he's not afraid to take the glow plugs out. And maybe he did test them, but that's not what he said.

 

[sepulchral]

Yeah, he tested the compression so I guess he's not afraid to take the glow plugs out. And maybe he did test them, but that's not what he said.

i did not test the glow plugs
check resistance/ohms between what and what on the glow plugs? thepumpguysc: i did try and start it without the fuel solenoid installed - no go

 

[thepumpguysc]

It'll probably take you a few hrs to do all the checks I recommended, so I'll check back in then.. post the results.

 

[sepulchral]

still wanting to know where i should test the glow plugs - one probe at the 12v terminal and another on the tip of the heated end of the plug? I'm at work so I can't get these results till much later if not tomorrow

 

[Birken Vogt]

I test glow plugs with a DC clamp meter around the wire.

If you do not have one or do not know what this means then skip this step.

Just take out the glow plugs, [gently] vise grip or otherwise securely ground the hex part and apply 12v to the center stud. They draw a fair amount of current so no 10 cent alligator clips, have to use real wire. They should glow red hot shortly.

If you want to do the ohm check it is also from the center stud to the outside body, should read a very low number, but the actual glow test removes all doubt.

 

[Delmer]

still wanting to know where i should test the glow plugs - one probe at the 12v terminal and another on the tip of the heated end of the plug? I'm at work so I can't get these results till much later if not tomorrow

No, do it with them still installed, that's the point. Check the ohms between the terminal and ground (engine block, or the hex part of the glow plug itself) The reading should be fairly close on all of them. Some glow plugs will burn out if left on, and the symptoms you have are easily explained by bad glowplugs, aside from Birken's view of this engine's startability without them. All other explanations get harder given the amount of smoke you're getting IMHO.

 

[sepulchral]

Thanks. You are all very helpful and i really really appreciate the input and level of response. I work far away from home and am always busy with kids so I hope to get some of this accomplished as soon as possible.

 

[Birken Vogt]

And don't take my word that this engine is startable without them because on further detail I can see some injection parts different than the Perkins branded ones I usually work on so it makes a lot of sense to have bad glow plugs.

 

[mountainlake]

My 3 cylinder Isuzu on my sawmill will not start without the glow plugs even a 85F, starts down too -5f with them.. Keep in mind some glow plugs heat up way faster than others, the originals on the Isuzu took 5 to 10 second, now that I've replaced them it can be up to 25 seconds when real cold. Steve

 

[thepumpguysc]

Very true Mt.Lake.. I worked on a "Universal Diesel" in a sailboat once.. The customer complaint was, it wouldn't start..
I checked EVERYTHING.. even going so far as to check the gp's w/ an volt/ohm meter..
I asked if he had the manual on the motor & as luck would have it, he did..
2nd paragraph, after all the usual checks was, hold the glow plug button for 90 SECONDS!!!
UNHEARD OF.. I held the button for 90 seconds, turned the key & she fired right up...
EVER SINCE THEN, I PULL the gp's to SEE them activate.. that way, I can COUNT the activation time..[get red/white hot]
I cant count the # of times I've seen the ohm meter test, bite someone on the ass..

 

[mountainlake]

I would really check out the glow plug function in this case, I think some machines came with a timer with the fast heat glow plugs and turned them off after 10 seconds or so, if the originals were replaced with the slower one and the machine turned them off after 10 seconds it won start. To test put a test light on the glow plug terminal have someone activate the glow plugs and see if they stay on or turn off after 10 seconds. If they stay on try running them for at least 20 seconds. Steve

 

[sepulchral]

Mmm. Omfg. All three glow plugs are bad

 

[Birken Vogt]

At least it is cheap and easy to fix.

As for the necessary vs. unnecessary thing, a lot of these size engines are available in DI and PC versions. Usually a PC this size will not start without them (but not always). Usually a DI will depending on temperature. I don't know what this one is.

I made this thread a while ago:
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/indirect-vs-direct-injection-small-diesels.59563/

 

[Vetech63]

Mmm. Omfg. All three glow plugs are bad

WooHooooo! Do we have success!? Man, I need a drink now

 

[sepulchral]

 

[sepulchral]

Thank you all. Now I need a part number. Cat 3013na or Perkins 403d-15