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Need business help

Rlh constructio

Active Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
27
Location
Salem ar
We are a 10 year old company and to start this is a little embarsing but I'm now 34 years old and have grew this company from one dump truck to doing over 8 million a year . Here's is the bad side I started this business writing checks doing payroll from my kitchen table. We have now built a office and have full time office help and reciently started quick books to do my accounting. She is old school and we are really struggling on this and where to put what. I can honestly say I have ran a business for 10 years and can not tell you what or what doesn't make money we have several employees and they go as they please and don't turn in hardly any receipts. I'm in the field everyday either running a Trackhoe fixing a flat or shooting grade. I'm a very hands on person and the ceo too. Can any one give me some advice on how to get started the right track to make this a very secusseful company. We have plenty of work. I'm a big chaser and if I hear about it I'll be in part of it. Please help.
Ps I'm in a small town in Arkansas and there is little help here on some basic businessmen practices.
 

lantraxco

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,704
Location
Elsewhen
Do some searches on the Small Business Administration (SBA) websites, they should have some web tutorials maybe. Our local community college offers courses and seminars in Quickbooks accounting geared to those just starting out and upwards, might be something not too far from you. Also inquire around your local area for accountants that use Quickbooks and will help you set it up as part of their services. If you're doing that much volume, having a proffessional help you set it up right at the beginning and doing your month end procedures and reports either with you or for you will be well worth whatever it cost per month. Get referrals though from local businesses before you make a selection, and also make sure you feel comfortable with whoever you choose. Ask your banker or bank manager also, they may point you somewhere or introduce you to another business owner in your area that will be happy to advise you. Just some suggestions.
 

mitch504

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
5,776
Location
Andrews SC
Find an accountant or bookkeeper who is familiar with Quickbooks, and construction, too if you can get that lucky, to set up your chart of accounts for you.

Quickbooks is a good system once you get it set up.

On edit: or, just ignore me, and follow Lantraxco's advice above. :D
 
Last edited:

hetkind

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
472
Location
Unicoi, TN
What do you mean by old school? double entry accounting based off journal entries? And without receipts to generate journal entries, there is no real way to tracks costs against receipts to see if you are REALLY making money.

I work with one very old school construction company, invoices are hand written and signed on letterhead, but they are always spot on. The guys in the field turn in daily sheets with time and materials against each job, those become a series of daily journal entries, with costs being associated with various accounts.

You need more than a bookkeeper, you need a business manager.

Howard
 

oldtanker

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
463
Location
vining mn
Occupation
Ret
Quick Books is a very simple program to run once it's set up for your business. I worked at a place when they started using quick books. I was in the office a couple of days a week and then out doing field sales. Our accountant loved us after quick books was set up and we where able to see with a few mouse clicks what was making money and what wasn't.

Do you have a community college near you with either a management or accounting course? Might be a good idea to take a few classes. You may also be able to hire one of the students who is almost done as a temp part timer to help you get it set up and to train whoever is doing your office work. You may have to really get on workers about turning in receipts daily! Set up and run correctly it can help you track a lot of things and to make decisions. Good example is when to replace a piece of equipment because it's getting to expensive to maintain. Or when you are better off not even owning something and just renting as the need arises.

Rick
 

farmerlund

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
1,237
Location
North Dakota
Occupation
Farmer/ excavator
One place that really helped me the last few years, is the business that does my taxes. a local place with 5-6 really good people. they sort of specialize in agriculture and small business.

I was not very organized 10 years or so ago. with there help they got me set up with the right categories, files and general office procedures so I can keep track of and find anything I need as time goes on. The nice part is when it comes to tax time or payroll withholding all my stuff is the way they like it. makes it super easy and quick. didn't really cost much either.

we use binders with folders in all of our equipment with job names in them. invoices and field notes go in. It will take some time but the employees need to keep track of what happens day to day. or at least a few of them need to take on that responsibility.

I think you will find once you get a more efficient system, that it is also more enjoyable to run your business.
 

old-iron-habit

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
4,233
Location
Moose Lake, MN
Occupation
Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
Its very important to have a way of tracking your accounting to each job so you know what work is profitable and what is not. No sense doing unprofitable work when you can do more of the projects that are carrying the bad ones you don'tknow about. There are a few good construction accounting systems out there. At $8 million gross a year you are doing a lot right. A good business manager will pay for himself/herself many times over. Just be sure that you learn and understand what he is doing. And include him in the corporate plan so he profits when you your profits go up. Good luck.
 

Rlh constructio

Active Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
27
Location
Salem ar
One of my biggest problems is keeping up with our expenses. We have several jobs going on and one hour I may be 30 feet in the air hanging metal then I may be under a Trackhoe fixing a hydraulic leak and then on the phone looking at blue prints for a bid due tomorrow. We live in a very small town and finding the help with experience in management is very hard. It's hard enough to find help that can pass a drug test and show up every morning. How do y'all keep up with expense on every job and how do you hold people's feet to the fire and make sure the receipt gets to the office to be able to be assigned to a appropriate job. I am as much to blame as anyone but I started this company with no previous experience and this business has outgrown me I need some much needed help. Thanks for all the advice.
 

lantraxco

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,704
Location
Elsewhen
It's really tough to drag a company that's been operating in sort of startup mode for several years into a more organized concern with duties delegated to several capable department heads (even if it's a department of one for now) while you're running flat out trying to keep things going. I sympathise, but maybe hitting up a recruiter to head hunt a few applicants for office positions, or canvas the crew you have now and see if any of them have what it takes to step up and take some of the workload off you.

No offense, but having worked for several outfits from family run to corporate seagull management, if you're doing seven figures a year gross, you should never be hanging steel or fixing an oil leak unless you REALLY enjoy it. You need that one guy on each job that tells the other guys to hang steel or whatever and you need an oiler/mechanic/truck driver, laborer (I wore those hats and more several times, even ran hoe now and then when I couldn't do any damage, lol). A couple of very rich men I have studied said it very simply, figure out the most profitable thing you do, calculate how much per hour your worth, and if some task can be hired done for less than your hourly rate, pay someone else to do it. Not saying park your butt in an office and slave over a computer, but you gotta delegate, that will be the hardest thing to do, finding those people, and then letting them do their jobs, but if you're ever going to grow and either sell out or pass the company on and retire, you absolutely have to. Then you make those people responsible for keeping the paperwork straight, and they'll do the same for the people under them. Long process, but if everybody knows the goal and the plan, usually they'll buy in, especially if it's explained that bonuses, raises, benefits, are entirely dependent on getting profits up and expenses down, making things more efficient. It can be fun too, if it's approached right and you get buy in.

I should have been a politician, I talk too much.
 

oldtanker

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
463
Location
vining mn
Occupation
Ret
It's really tough to drag a company that's been operating in sort of startup mode for several years into a more organized concern with duties delegated to several capable department heads (even if it's a department of one for now) while you're running flat out trying to keep things going. I sympathise, but maybe hitting up a recruiter to head hunt a few applicants for office positions, or canvas the crew you have now and see if any of them have what it takes to step up and take some of the workload off you.

No offense, but having worked for several outfits from family run to corporate seagull management, if you're doing seven figures a year gross, you should never be hanging steel or fixing an oil leak unless you REALLY enjoy it. You need that one guy on each job that tells the other guys to hang steel or whatever and you need an oiler/mechanic/truck driver, laborer (I wore those hats and more several times, even ran hoe now and then when I couldn't do any damage, lol). A couple of very rich men I have studied said it very simply, figure out the most profitable thing you do, calculate how much per hour your worth, and if some task can be hired done for less than your hourly rate, pay someone else to do it. Not saying park your butt in an office and slave over a computer, but you gotta delegate, that will be the hardest thing to do, finding those people, and then letting them do their jobs, but if you're ever going to grow and either sell out or pass the company on and retire, you absolutely have to. Then you make those people responsible for keeping the paperwork straight, and they'll do the same for the people under them. Long process, but if everybody knows the goal and the plan, usually they'll buy in, especially if it's explained that bonuses, raises, benefits, are entirely dependent on getting profits up and expenses down, making things more efficient. It can be fun too, if it's approached right and you get buy in.

I should have been a politician, I talk too much.

Gotta agree. You are at the point where you need to hire managers to include office management. If you current office help isn't up to taking that part over then you need to find someone who can run it.

A little advice here. If you start hiring managers, both office and work site try to hire the best you can. Then once you know that they are competent get the heck out of the way and let them do their jobs! That's going to be the hardest transition for you. From doer to being the boss. I hope turning that kind of money you have incorporated as an LLC. Plus instead of living off of company accounts you should be paying yourself as an employee, the CEO.

As lantraxco said. Figure out what you are worth as CEO per hour. If that's higher than what you can pay to have things done then pay it. If you love working on stuff get an old dozer and restore in your off time as a hobby!

The biggest thing is to find people you can trust then TRUST them. Try to avoid micromanagement! If you have someone you have to micromanage then you have the wrong person in that job! That's another big thing. To be the boss you have to know how to be an a**hole! The real trick there is knowing when to be one. That means that no matter what you have to be able to tell someone your fired. Doesn't matter if they have a sick mother or 12 kids. If they are hurting you and your company they gotta go. That's also where management training comes into play. You have to be able to fire someone for cause and be able to prove it when they try filing for unemployment. That can also protect you from an "unlawful dismissal" law suit.

Rick
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
Not to toss gas on the fire, but before you hire anyone, you need to categorize priorities, let me be the first to point out one thing. Gross income means nothing useful, what you need to be concerned with is NET income, if your having trouble with keeping up with expense's, your falling far short of NET, managers, foremen, bankers or anyone else on the list is not going to give you net income. You need to know your costs, and what profit margins your needing to keep the doors open and money coming in. Hire some bookkeepers first to categorize everything and organize your business expense's and no they don't need to be full time with benefits at first, hire a firm to come in and help you out, I'd guess your needing quite a few of them to help you muddle through the paperwork clutter and give you a diagnosis of where your making or losing money and how much of each if that makes sense.

I have no idea who your working with now, a spouse, kids, friend, business partners, banker or who, but whoever is involved with you on the business end, needs to sit down and come up with a plan.................AFTER you know where your making money and losing money, and decided if you want to turn the unprofitable area's around or just quit them completely.

A very successful retired businessman once told me, its not hard to keep busy, anyone can do that, what's hard is to turn a profit on every aspect of your operation every year, and without knowing costs and profit margins, your operating blind.

Then you need to look at the type of work your doing, who your customers are and ask yourself one simple question, are you getting the business because your the best..................or the cheapest? If you change anything, your going to lose business, guaranteed, so before you hire a bunch of people to help you out, you'd better come up with how much and how good of business your going to lose, no manager, foreman, banker or anyone will help you in this area, its YOUR educated guess and nobody else's, no bookkeeper will either.

I'd venture an uneducated guess your going to eventually get a good handle on your books, either by sheer frustration, exhaustion, or being forced by someone to do so, and when you stand back and view it, and get it categorized your going to ask yourself why your doing some of the things your currently doing and just how much those things cost you, not make you and when changes are made, your then in position to worry about hiring personnel to help you run the business, but maybe not as many as some think.

If your from small town nobody USA, like some of us also are from, those you hire will cost you business, especially if they have to be in contact with the public, bookkeepers not so much, but any form of foreman, managers will. Why, because its not YOU the public deals with, flat out as simple as it gets. To change to a more corporate type business like some are suggesting, hire someone for less money to free up your time kind of thinking, plan on losing quit a bit of business over it, only you can plan on who those customers will be and how much it will cost you, every area is different and every person you work for thinks differently, its just a gamble of odds, start slowly is my advice on hiring anyone full time, especially those your wanting to fill your shoes so to speak so you can be elsewhere.

If I knew what type of work you do, what size jobs you do and what equipment you have and how much of it, and also how many you have working for you, we all could give much better advice as how to proceed after you get the books under control.

Score is a business based organization that may or may not be of help to you, depending on who is running the group in your area, most use retired successful business people looking to help out someone else younger starting out, if for nothing else it gives them something to do in their spare time.

Oh yea, welcome to the forum and also to the headaches of business ownership. Best of luck on however you decide to tackle the problem.
 

thepumpguysc

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
7,445
Location
Sunny South Carolina
Occupation
Master Inj.Pump rebuilder
I hate to keep recycling previous ideas BUT>> the one about a p/t accountant is VERY GOOD.. I can tell you from personal experience..
My company needed some help in the account receivable area after the person relocated.. we hired the "payables" daughter, who was in college at the time for bookkeeping.. P/T, no benefits.. 3-4 hrs aday.. came in when she was off from class's.. She worked there for a year, year and 1/2.. till she finished school, got a job w/ a large electric company and 5 years later is running the accounting dept for 1 of the largest electric companys in the world, all at 25-26yrs old.. and has about 2-300 people under her..
MOST bookkeepers I know, have several OTHER business's they take care of on a P/T basis.. not just the 1 they "work for"..
I know its hard to "find" a bookkeeper in a small town but not impossible.. just walk into your local diner, mom and pop store or local motel and ask to speak to the manager.. ask them who does your books..
Good luck w/ your business and search..
 

Rlh constructio

Active Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
27
Location
Salem ar
We are general contractors that mainly focus on site work( drainage dirt and rock) we also do a lot of concrete flat work and footings We have just started hanging some iron but do a little bit of everything. I have from 7 to 25 workers and sub out parts of our work . We try to do work that we have the machines to handle ( Trackhoe dozers graders dump trucks skid steers and a couple pieces for handling metal. Plus a 75 ton lowboy. I called today and the sba is coming the 22 to go over my business and give some ideas. Most of our contracts are under a million. We have a cpa that does our returns and does a reviewed audit for my state contractors license but our quick books and paper work are so messed up its a fight to ever get it worked out. I really appreciate all y'all taking the time to try and help.
 

Oxbow

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
1,201
Location
Idaho
Hire someone if needed to get Quickbooks started correctly, and be sure to check with someone knowledgeable before entering equipment purchases, and new loans. As others have indicated, Quickbooks is great, IF, the information is correctly entered. Garbage in - garbage out.

I use Excell in conjunction with QB to track cost per hour, cost per mile, cost per yard, etc., which requires some double entry.
 

Brodiesel

Senior Member
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
259
Location
Winnemucca, NV
Occupation
My wife makes all the $$$.
It's really tough to drag a company that's been operating in sort of startup mode for several years into a more organized concern with duties delegated to several capable department heads (even if it's a department of one for now) while you're running flat out trying to keep things going. I sympathise, but maybe hitting up a recruiter to head hunt a few applicants for office positions, or canvas the crew you have now and see if any of them have what it takes to step up and take some of the workload off you.

No offense, but having worked for several outfits from family run to corporate seagull management, if you're doing seven figures a year gross, you should never be hanging steel or fixing an oil leak unless you REALLY enjoy it. You need that one guy on each job that tells the other guys to hang steel or whatever and you need an oiler/mechanic/truck driver, laborer (I wore those hats and more several times, even ran hoe now and then when I couldn't do any damage, lol). A couple of very rich men I have studied said it very simply, figure out the most profitable thing you do, calculate how much per hour your worth, and if some task can be hired done for less than your hourly rate, pay someone else to do it. Not saying park your butt in an office and slave over a computer, but you gotta delegate, that will be the hardest thing to do, finding those people, and then letting them do their jobs, but if you're ever going to grow and either sell out or pass the company on and retire, you absolutely have to. Then you make those people responsible for keeping the paperwork straight, and they'll do the same for the people under them. Long process, but if everybody knows the goal and the plan, usually they'll buy in, especially if it's explained that bonuses, raises, benefits, are entirely dependent on getting profits up and expenses down, making things more efficient. It can be fun too, if it's approached right and you get buy in.

I should have been a politician, I talk too much.

Great advice lantrax.
 

oldtanker

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
463
Location
vining mn
Occupation
Ret
Great advice lantrax.

Gotta agree! I worked for a guy in a small outfit, most blacktopping and some dirt work. 7-10 employees. When I worked for him he was at the point of getting too big for him to be a worker too. He, early in the season realized this and after getting some help/advice from a larger operation made some changes. Right away he promoted a long standing employee to running the crew. Then, because I had been running equipment, driving truck and doing repairs I got moved to just doing repairs and keeping the equipment ready to go. By the end of the season he'd had to add a couple of more trucks and some more employees to include a helper for me. He had an accountant who came in once a week for half a day too. The guy running the crew, the owner and I were on good terms. Sometimes we'd get together off the clock. The foreman an I gave the owner grief about being lazy and just setting in the café drinking coffee with the boys all day. What in truth happened is he had more time to look at jobs to make bids on and was able to pick up more work. Being free to work on getting jobs allowed him to make it through the Carter/Regan recession. I went on to the Army and he retired and sold out about the time I retired from the Army.

Rick
 

Raildudes dad

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2007
Messages
411
Location
Grand Rapids MI
You need to focus on managing the business. Time for you to give up working on the projects / repairs etc.unless it's an ememrgency. Once you get the quick-books set up correctly, you will be able to see which projects made money, how much each piece of equipment is costing you as well as how much revenue it's generated. That should be you focus, what's profitable, waht's not pritabe what do we do that more profitable.

I have a friend of 25 years that owns a business similar to what you describe for yours. He gets involved with every bid (good thing) but then thinks he needs to be on every job site giving directions. Obviously he can't be on them all, so he doesn't do that well. His "supervisors" dread him onsite. He has one division he needs to close up but can't being himself to do it because that's what he started his business with.

If you desire to be more hands on, maybe you need to downsize? Larger is not always more profitable.

I'm a civil engineer and enjoy the field work but I also enjoy the number crunching that accounting side requires.
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,274
Location
sw missouri
I think the original poster may have other problems:

http://www.areawidenews.com/story/2165801.html

"Hurtt said he purchased the backhoe from the suspect on a county road for $4,500, and the suspect "snickered" when asked where it had come from. According to Shaw, the value of the backhoe was approximately $57,778.

On Sept. 4, the Missouri and Arkansas investigators obtained Hurtt's permission to search his business on Highway 62-412 east of Salem. Three other pieces of equipment were found on the property, which had been reported stolen in Missouri: a Caterpillar backhoe valued at $49,000, a John Deere Wheel Loader valued at $44,000, and a Brute Force goose neck trailer valued at $7,000.

A related search of equipment at an RLH Construction job site found a John Deere skid steer valued at $17,000.

Hurtt told investigators that he would produce documents to show he had purchased the items legally.

During a later meeting, Hurtt and his attorney provided documents from accounting software showing receipts for parts and receipts from auction purchases. According to Shaw's affidavit: "None of the documents provided appear to account for the purchases of stolen items which were recovered. In addition, Hurtt stated he would provide sworn statements from witnesses who had knowledge of the transactions for the equipment. No such statements have been provided."



I didn't find any sentencing or a court date even, so it may all be cleared up, but sometimes the wheels of justice turn slow.
 
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