Moral Delema, need advice Please

[Cmark]

I am not sure that attempting to collect the money owed from the original agreement could be called revenge. And charging for time spent after having a time agreed upon is a realistic charge. I do agree though that revenge is a dead end street.

Not meant as a criticism OIH. Just trying to provide a little balance.

 

[wrwtexan]

Not to hijack the thread, but how does anyone if any do, quote a job on older machinery? I specialize in older farm equipment and even on a job I have done many times before (say an IH 856 clutch replace), if the customer asks how much it will cost, I tell them a close figure but they can't hold me to it. I never know what kind of rigging has been done or extra damage I may find once inside. I know auto mechanics give an estimate which they must call about if there will be a cost over run on, but what we work on doesn't play by those rules. Take pumpguy's project, as it has sat in the woods for years and he is tasked with fixing the pump and starting it, what if there are other unknown factors which could prevent his work from successfully fixing the machine? Or the knuckle dragging owner doesn't the decency to leave a hot battery for completing his work. His quote then is out the window. I will estimate a project's repair time but charge for actual productive repair time spent.

 

[Cmark]

Not to hijack the thread, but how does anyone if any do, quote a job on older machinery? I specialize in older farm equipment and even on a job I have done many times before (say an IH 856 clutch replace), if the customer asks how much it will cost, I tell them a close figure but they can't hold me to it. I never know what kind of rigging has been done or extra damage I may find once inside. I know auto mechanics give an estimate which they must call about if there will be a cost over run on, but what we work on doesn't play by those rules. Take pumpguy's project, as it has sat in the woods for years and he is tasked with fixing the pump and starting it, what if there are other unknown factors which could prevent his work from successfully fixing the machine? Or the knuckle dragging owner doesn't the decency to leave a hot battery for completing his work. His quote then is out the window. I will estimate a project's repair time but charge for actual productive repair time spent.

I would say there's a couple of factors in play here, firstly;

Know the difference between and estimate and a quote and just as importantly make sure your customer does when you're discussing the job with him (and maybe more importantly, her)

And secondly, experience. I don't care what anyone says, there's no way I could have done (professionally speaking) what I do now, when I was 25.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I ONLY gave him a price on a PUMP overhaul and installation..
I do this for a living and heard the engine start and run, so I knew the Head & Rotor, main pumping unit, was good.. so I gave him the "brother in-law" ESTIMATE..
And like you said, I ALWAYS call if something goes a rye..
BTW> he still hasn't called back.. the son must have gotten the battery hot enough to get the air out and he's riding around cutting grass.. Lol We'll see..
Thanks again for all the advice.. TPG

 

[Tones]

Has your favourite client coughed up yet TPG?

 

[thepumpguysc]

I haven't heard a peep from him since he got his 1600.00 pump installed.. [for free]
I think I'll give him a call today. I'll bet the call goes to voice mail.??
Personally, its not a question of money, but that of reputation.. I don't want him hiring someone else to "finish" the job and then bad mouthing me..
100.00 says he got it started and NEVER called back..!!!

 

[Tones]

I haven't heard a peep from him since he got his 1600.00 pump installed.. [for free]
I think I'll give him a call today. I'll bet the call goes to voice mail.??
Personally, its not a question of money, but that of reputation.. I don't want him hiring someone else to "finish" the job and then bad mouthing me..
100.00 says he got it started and NEVER called back..!!!

Since when did you become a charity TPG. And another 100 says he aint gona pay.

 

[Randy88]

He's going to bad mouth you to everyone anyhow, no matter what you'd have done, no matter whether there was a fire or not, if he'd have gotten it back the next day, its how these types operate.

I'd take a portion of the bet saying your not going to get a dime, and still end up being the ahole.

If I hadn't received payment, I'd send him the bill for the full amount, then take him to court, let the judge hash out what your owed, you have phone records of the harassment he gave you, show pictures of your burned down shop, if insurance is involved, you'll have that paperwork to show your waiting for them to act, if no insurance was involved, then ask the judge what you owe the guy. or what's fair? You have a receipt for the pump purchase, doctors instructions, a buddy to explain in court what took place, how things went down and if nothing else, let the judge decide what your owed, then there shouldn't be any moral dilemma on your part, what the law decides is how it goes down, end on decision.

I'm not thinking it would too hard to prove you went above and beyond what anyone on earth would have done, how you were treated, and how things went down. I don't have a lot of faith in the legal system, but right now, I'm thinking your being had by a complete jerkwad, but that's just my opinion.

 

[oldtanker]

A heads up for you mechanics. A decent lawyer 2 weeks out of law school can discredit the typical disclaimers of "not responsible for loss due to theft, fire ECT". That's because under law you have a duty to safeguard a customers vehicle, equipment or parts. It's not their fault a shop burned, was robbed or taken by mother nature. All that disclaimer does is make some people think they can't do anything about a loss. This knowledge is based on being a former adjuster and having to settle claims due to those losses. The dividing line is betterment. That means that they are owed the value of what was lost. They had a used pump. What's the value of a used pump? Having to buy a new or reman one actually is betterment. So you or the insurance company has to eat the value of a used pump and the customer would pay the difference in a perfect world. Most often because in situations like this it take time and money to fight something in court the insurance company will often just pay the entire cost. Why spend 10K fighting a 1K write off plus having to deal with disgruntled customers, both current and potential? That's why you see things like the guy who broke into a home and then accidentally got locked in the garage for several days. While in jail for the breaking he sued the homeowner. The home owners insurance company paid 85K to settle as it was cheaper than fighting.

Rick

 

[Delmer]

Now that's just sick.

Remember that the details often come down to state law, and as I was reminded recently, state law is less nanny state and more free for all the farther south you go. So your experience in MN and mine in WI might be similar to MI or New England, but it's a whole different ballgame in Texas.

In this case, the customer would typically would have to weigh the cost of a decent lawyer against a new pump if he thought that's what he was entitled to.

 

[John C.]

Actually there is no such thing as a decent lawyer two weeks out of law school. Second, state laws determine what a business can be held liable for and many states rule that a contract for services can limit liability. That is why you sign work orders, which are contracts, at any car dealer, appliance repair shop and so on so forth. In this state, Washington State, when a business accepts property from a customer the term is called a bailment and the requirement is for due care and caution. So if a fire, theft, airplane crash, tornado, earthquake and on and on happens and negligence on the part of the bailee cannot be proven, then the bailor's insurance pays any covered loss. It is pretty cut and dried in most cases. The example of betterment is usually applied differently in most insurance claims I've worked on. In this state a betterment has to be measurable. You wreck your car and the insurance company finds a comparable vehicle of like kind and quality. The tires on the wrecked car have 95% of the tread worn off while the replacement car has new tires. The settlement would deduct the difference in the value of the tires. In the case of the fuel pump a likely settlement offer would only pay the cost of another core pump. There would not be a consideration of betterment because the insurance company would only need to make the claimant whole. A check would be written for settlement and it would be up to the claimant to obtain a working pump.

The issue in this case is non performance of a service. Life gets in the way at times. The customer had the capability to take the asset to another shop when he learned of the reduced capability of the service provider and if the situation were dire, he should have done so. That fact that he didn't do that indicates the situation wasn't dire and would limit his ability to make the claim before a judge. At this point he received the asset apparently in working condition and needs to pay the bill.

I am not an attorney but carried an insurance adjuster's license in this state for eighteen years. Payoffs that are described above is why the cost of insurance has skyrocketed. Anyone can make a claim and as long as it is kept below a certain threshold the insurance company pays it and dumps the extra costs on its customers. Pass a law that says the loser in court battles pays all costs and you would see the attorney bonanza of frivolous law suits go away in a hurry.

 

[JDOFMEMI]

............ Pass a law that says the loser in court battles pays all costs and you would see the attorney bonanza of frivolous law suits go away in a hurry.

Boy isn't that the truth!

 

[thepumpguysc]

I haven't been on this thread in along time, so sorry for the delay..
I NEVER heard from the guy and I hold true to what I wrote on #24.. BUT EVERY TIME I THINK ABOUT IT.. I get sick to my stomach..
I never called him either, so I guess its a wash.. I'm out 1600.00 + time + labor and HE "probably" has a running tractor..
I'm STILL down with this back problem.. going on 5 months now..
The docs cured the sciatic problem THANK GOD.. that pain was unbearable... its a sad thing to see a 50+ years old man, curled up in a ball, crying..but they created more/different pain..
My left foot is numb, but getting better and I get an awful cramp in my "cheek"...quite often.. and the only thing the doc says is,.. You don't have THAT SHOOTING PAIN going down you leg tho, right??"
"Here's another prescription, see you in 6 weeks"...
But, back on track... I guess if the guy was gonna sue me, he'd of done it by now.?? I"M DEFINATLY NOT gonna persure it.. Who needs friends like that??? NOT ME..
I hope everyone is fine and in good health.. I'm around if you need me.. I don't get out of the chair much, but my fingers still work.. Lol {TPG**

 

[Blk prince]

Do not even think of past deal. You have enough on your plate. What about the shop,insurance and repairs? Post when you can good luck

 

[Delmer]

Good riddance, often the best you can hope for.