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Mitsubishi BD2G Questions

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by BrentD, Jul 20, 2008.

  1. BrentD

    BrentD Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Cameron, TX
    I recently purchased a 1986 Mitsubishi BD2G wide-track dozer with between 2700 and 3000 hours (can't really tell because the hour counter is broken) and finally got around to trying it out today. This is the first dozer I've ever had any experience with and after driving it around all moving a bunch of dirt around, I have a few questions that are probably specific to the BD2G.

    First off, after I'd been running the dozer for several hours I started noticing a strange gurgling sound when I'd stop the engine to take a break. The first time I heard it, I sorta panicked because it sounded like water/coolant boiling in the radiator. I raised the hood and looked at the overflow tube, but it was pretty much dry. It didn't have any more moisture than you'd expect from condensation. Being as old as this dozer is, I'd been watching the temp gauge like a hawk all day, and it never got close to the red. (Assuming it is working properly) I checked all the fluid/coolant levels before I got started and everything was fine. There aren't any visible coolant leaks. Could this be a stuck thermostat or a partially clogged radiator? Possibly wrong coolant? Am I just being paranoid?

    Along with the boiling water sound, the front end of the hood over the radiator gets extremely hot. So hot you can hardly touch it. Is that normal? Since the muffler and everything is under the hood on the BD2G I'd expect it to get pretty hot, just not sur how hot it's supposed to get. Granted, I am working out in the hot Texas sun in temperatures over 100 degrees.

    Second thing that concerns me a bit is that the oil is BLACK. Really BLACK. And that was before I started it up this morning. The dealer we bought it from said the first thing he did to it when he got it on his lot was change the oil. Unfortunately his mechanic had a heart attack the day after we bought the dozer and we had to wait quite a while for him to find another mechanic to get it all prepped for sale, so maybe the oil change fell through the cracks. (I feel incredibly stupid for not checking the oil when it was on the lot before we bought it. I knew better, but it just slipped my mind at the time.) I know that the dealer was supposed to fix the non-functional hour counter, fuel gauge and lights, and those things all slipped through the cracks. He did replace 2 rollers and fix a hydraulic leak before it was delivered though.

    Third thing I noticed is that when I get to pushing a pretty heavy with it, if I cut a little too deep and get bogged down the left-right pivot cylinders will give a little bit and I'll have to straighten the blade back out when I'm done. (Not the blade rotation, but the pivot. You can tell I'm new at this. I don't know all the terms yet.) My general mechanical instinct tells me I may have a leaky seal in the valve. Is that possible or am I maybe just putting too much strain on the hydraulics?

    And one last thing, how tight should the tracks be? They give just the slightest bit when I stand on them to get on and off. (I weigh about 240 for reference)

    Other than my above questions, the dozer did great. Engine never bogged down once, even when I'd cut way too deep and have to back off. The tracks would start slipping in the sand before the engine bogged.
     
  2. JimInOz

    JimInOz Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2008
    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    Victoria, Australia
    HI Brent

    Hi Brent,
    Those BD2G are a good little machine.
    The problem with under the hood sounds like a cooling issue...get any auto mechanic or a handy friend to check it out.Even in the hot sun,it should run cool enough to work properly.Is the radiator blocked?
    I assume it's a manual gearbox machine ,as opposed to direct Powershift,fitted with 6 way PAT blade.
    Maybe you have some blade pin wear or hydraulic seal wear in your blade.
    The problems with the fuel gauges is common to BD2G machines....Fuel & Hour
    meters are often found to be bad (typical electronic rubbish) & the gauge set costs hundreds to replace.I tend to add my own normal gauges ,as replacing the electro-crap will only fix the problem until it fails again ....which will happen.
    The lights are also a problem to fix ,as rust is often a problem.I tend to buy a set of 12V headlights from the auto shop & put 24Volt globes in them (if suitable)....or just buy 24V ,but they are expensive.

    Pyramid plates are made for swamp work,& these machines in Japan are used in snow & mud applications.They wear quickly on dirt work,as they are under more stress in non-soft conditions....plus they don't dig in well for excavating work.
    If you're going to keep the machine,try to put a small set of scarifiers on it,to rip the ground you need to dig....it will extend the life of your machine a lot,& make your job easier.
    Check & replace all oils ...for the sake of starting out fresh & keeping records.
    I can get parts & books....but Rhine Equipment in Tacoma is your nearby dealer.The Operator manual has the lube charts & maint. tips you need.
    Quote your Serial number to get the right books.

    Good luck & contact me if I can help further.
    Jim
     
  3. BrentD

    BrentD Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
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    Location:
    Cameron, TX
    Thanks for the reply. The cooling thing has me a bit baffled. It doesn't seem to be loosing any coolant, the radiator looks like it has been replaced, and there isn't really any sign of overheating, with the exception of that front 6-8 inches or so of hood area being really hot. (Hot like the top of a car that has been out in the sun all day.) And I can kind of see heat heat distortion in the air coming off the hood.

    I've got a request in with Rhine for Users manuals and service manuals, but haven't heard back yet. Their website lists them as being out of the manuals for the BD2G.

    On the gauges, do you think I can safely trust the temp gauge? It appears to work. Starts cool and works it's way to just past half scale. If I go with add-on gauges, particularly oil pressure and water temp, are there existing ports I can use or will I need to remove the stock sensors and use those ports? Is there a way to add an after-market fuel gauge? (Not that I'll really need one as little fuel as this thing uses.)

    On the tracks, this dozer is going to be used, probably exclusively on my parents farm that has some of the worst sand imaginable. There are areas where you have to trudge through coarse desert-like sand soft enough to sink ankle-deep when it's dry. From just the work I did today I think the pyramid tracks are all that kept me from getting stuck a few times.
     
  4. RocksnRoses

    RocksnRoses Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    Owner operater crushing & contracting business
    Location:
    South Australia
    Just a thought

    Just a thought BrentD, does the top of the engine seem abnormally hot when you stop it? We had a Cat 950E did the same thing and we could not track it down, but eventually we found that the impellar had come loose on the water pump shaft and of course it wasn't circulating the water. We were told later on that this had been a problem on that particular water pump. Regarding the black engine oil, it either means that the dealer did not change it or it is that in some diesel engines the oil does turn black fairly quickly. I was told once that this means the oil is doing it's job cleaning the engine. If in doubt, change the oil and filters.

    R'nR.
     
  5. BrentD

    BrentD Active Member

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    $#!@!!! That thought hadn't even crossed my mind... Yes, the top of the engine does seem hotter than I would think it should be. I guess if the water pump is not circulating, the pressure change for the water in the engine approaching boiling could provide enough circulation to keep the temp gauge out of the red, but still generate a lot of heat. With the hood up, I'd say 60-75% of the heat feels like it is coming from the radiator, but the gurgling noises sounded like they were coming from the engine block.

    This begs the question where is the temp sending unit on the BD2G?

    Since all the other fluids were changed and topped off before we bought the machine I'm thinking that the dealer probably did change the oil, but that it just got black real quick. I'll probably change the oil and filter before I use the dozer again just to be sure. Need to get the cooling problem resolved first. I've never worked on a diesel engine before, but I've rebuilt the engine in a Pontiac Aztek and I'm not sure there is much that could be more complicated than that. At least the dozer has more room to work in under the hood. :D
     
  6. JimInOz

    JimInOz Senior Member

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    408
    Location:
    Victoria, Australia
    Bd2g

    HI Brent,
    You'll need to get a guy who knows about mechanics to look at the cooling system after a short run.Guessing over the net is a waste & you need to be sure you're doing the right thing .Get him to advise on the fitting of gauges for your machine...yours is an earlier G model,& shouldn't be too hard to fit aftermarket gauges to.A fuel gauge is often not necessary,but I have fitted Temp & Hour meters to one unit.

    I often have trouble getting a hold of the Rhine guys,which is why I find my own parts for my customers now.I sent a request for a $250 order several weeks ago....no reply.Maybe a call is the way to go.I think their advice is good too.

    THe track set up seems to suit your needs.I have been in some amazing places with a BD2E dozer fitted with pyramid plates.
     
  7. BrentD

    BrentD Active Member

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    Location:
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    Thanks for all the info. I'll try to get a diesel mechanic out to look at the cooling situation before I run it again for any length of time. I can diagnose and fix gas engines but don't have enough experience running diesels to know what is normal and what is not. I just knew the sound I heard did not sound like anything I would peg as normal. :eek:

    As for the manuals... I may be flying over to India next month (for my non-dozer-related day job) depending on what the boss decides. Maybe I can convince him to stop over in Japan for a day or two and I can pick them up there. lol.

    Well, it's getting close to 1AM here. I'm heading to bed.

    Thanks again.
     
  8. BrentD

    BrentD Active Member

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    One more quick question before I go. This should probably be common sense, but is the water pump on the BD2G belt driven and if so, is it by a separate belt from the fan belt?
     
  9. JimInOz

    JimInOz Senior Member

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    Location:
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    Bd2g

    Some Info...
     

    Attached Files:

  10. BrentD

    BrentD Active Member

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    Well, thought I'd add a couple of things to this thread. Went out to the farm this afternoon and ran a couple of checks. First thing I did was check the coolant in the radiator again. It was fine, so I started the machine up with the hood open and let the motor run for a a couple of minutes, not even enough to really warm up, then shut it down. When I shut it down, I heard a couple of quick gurgles similar to the sound I heard before, but not lasting as long.

    Taking a serious look under the hood I answered my own question about the location of the water pump. Water pump is attached to the fan. Duh. :p

    After the first short run, I started the engine up again and let it run until the temp gauge passed the black line between after the first short green section. I'm guessing that this is where the thermostat opens because once the temp crossed that line it dropped back down a bit. While the t-stat was open there was pressure on the upper coolant hose, so I'm guessing that tells me that the thermostat is opening correctly and that the water pump is working correctly.

    At this point I think I am going to go ahead and order a new thermostat. They're not that much and if the original hasn't been replaced it needs it anyway. I'm also going to grab an IR thermometer the next time I'm in Harbor Freight and actually check the engine and radiator temps to see what my perception of "hot" looks like numerically. At this point I'm beginning to wonder if I'm just paranoid about buying a 22year old dozer and the gurgling/boiling water sound I heard yesterday might just have been the pressure equalizing in the system.

    There is one other thing I forgot to ask about last night that I remembered this afternoon. There were a couple of times yesterday when I would shift to reverse and the dozer would sit there. I'd have to shift back to 1st, move the dozer a few inches then shift back to reverse. It only did this twice that I remember during the whole 6-7 hours that I ran it yesterday. When it does move, it has plenty of power in both directions and will break traction before the tracks stop or the engine bogs. This is a powershift transmission and I checked all of the oil levels and everything looks OK. Hydraulic reservoir is way overfilled but there i s minimal change in the level and does not appear to be cross-contaminated with transmission oil. (Looks like the dealer used standard hydraulic fluid in the hydraulic reservoir instead of regular engine oil.)

    I'll try to get some pics to post the next time I'm out there.
     
  11. d6peg

    d6peg Senior Member

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    With the forward-reverse issue, that could be a linkage problem. My dad's 5h would do that until we adjusted the shifter linkage. You also could have a valve sticking.

    There was a post earlier about changing all the oils, I think that is a good idea, just because the tranny oil and hyd. oil looks fine it could be contaminated.
     
  12. BrentD

    BrentD Active Member

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    Location:
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    Well, got my manuals from Kent Baugh Equipment in Hughes Springs, Texas. I've learned a lot about this little dozer that I would have just taken for granted. The lack of a torque converter in the transmission surprised me. I was expecting it to be more like an automatic transmission on a car. That was actually a pleasant surprise.

    Anyway, I think I have most of the problems I was experiencing resolved, or at least know how to resolve them. My gurgling/boiling water sound looks like it's probably a bad radiator cap letting air into the system.
     
  13. ellrod

    ellrod Active Member

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    Aug 2, 2008
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    Location:
    tennessee
    need manual

    Where could I find a manual for the BD2G. I just pruchased one "way to much money" but has 425 hours on it and I would guess one of the best little toys I have ever had. when it was new it had a clutch problem and was replaces and now needs adjusting. Break is holding before clutch releases. I have no idea where to start to look for anything on this unit. I have pulled wrenches for years "getting to old but still can do it" I just need to know where to start and I can take it from there. If you could give me a idea where the adjustments are I could take it from there. I have read your post on where the vital fluids are and what kind :)

    I have kept a old IH 500C going for last 14 years "farm & home use" but it has seen better days and you can not find parts for it here in the states. It has a 27 GPM pump that kills pump drives that I can't buy anymore & the 17 GPM pump I need can not be purchased or the drive got it. I have a son-in-law that owns a machine shop and he hates to see me pull up because he knows I have broken something.
    Thanks for any help you can give & thanks for the post you have on here on the DB2G.
     
  14. Countryboy

    Countryboy Senior Member

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    Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums ellrod! :drinkup
     
  15. JimInOz

    JimInOz Senior Member

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    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    Victoria, Australia
    Bd2g

    Hi Ellrod,
    If that is a genuine 425 Hour machine,it should serve you well.
    Watch for machines imported from Asia....a lot of them get a refurb before going to auction.
    Contact Rhine Equipment in Tacoma...they sell Operator (& other) manuals.
    I think they sell on eBay too.I think KTBaugh sells on eBay too.
    The adjustments are under the seat...but you'll need the Operator book for specs.


    I have a pump drive & pump from an old 500 Drott.

    Jim
     
  16. ellrod

    ellrod Active Member

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    Location:
    tennessee
    Pump

    :)Thanks Jim I will do that as soon as I get back from playing with the new toy.
    The pump you have, is it a 27 GPM or 17 GPM with drive ? I have the 27 GPM and it's a drive killer. Even with the new part my sun-in-law made me I cant keep the setscrew (1/4 inch grade 8 bolt) tight. If it's the 17 GPM how much would you take for it and where do you think a fellow might find a radiator. I hate to hit you with all these questions but so far in my searches you have been the only source of parts I have found :)
    I took the BD2g apart this morning and found all kinds of little things I didn't like about the care of the unit but nothing I coulden't handle. I was wondering about the battery setup on this thing... I see 2 12V batteries in series ?? is this thing 24 V ?
    Thanks for all the info again
    ellrod
    AKA: Bubba;)
     
  17. JimInOz

    JimInOz Senior Member

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    408
    Location:
    Victoria, Australia
    Bd2g

    Hi Bubba,
    Here's some adjustment scans for the BD2G.
    It is a 24V system,like a lot of Jap stuff.
    The BD2 are a good little machine,& are well made.The only thing I dislike are the rubbish bolts used...so I replace them with better bolts whenever I fix something.The hex heads are often a problem on older units.
    OEM parts are costly,& aftermarket parts are scarce.

    I think the 500 pump is a 17GPM.It was from an early loader.Will check it out today.
    There was a recent posting on the Redpower construction forum about 500 pump drives... was that your post ?



    Try tractorparts.com for the radiator.John wrecks a lot of machines,& is on the ball.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. ellrod

    ellrod Active Member

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    Thanks again for great info. I looked the clutch / break over this morning and I might have the brake bands just a little loose :).. It's little easier than the old IHC to work on there but I can see some stuff that could be really mean. While you are looking around see if you can find a radiator that will fit the old 500 C 1976 model I think.
    When I saw the battery's I was scared it was a 24V system and on top of that the charge light is on ! never a good sign. Fellow I got it from said it had been on since he owned it. Also fuel guage didn't work but it was unhooked ? 1/2 the pins in the linkage had no cotter keys in them and I am wondering if all the work was done that way. It has rust in a few places and I will see if I can stop that but I need to find out of the charging system is really working. I had a clip-on guage back LONG TIME AGO and it is here somewhere if I can find it. Checked starter draw & charging system amprage from from 2 slots in the back.
    On the post for pump I dont remember posting there, dont think I have been there but it could have been. I set them up so I get notified if it get's a response. I will find the post and see if it looks like I did it. I just look for mispelled words & something that makes no sense at all :)
    THanks again for everything I will log back in tomorrow and see what you found.
    Bubba
     
  19. JimInOz

    JimInOz Senior Member

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    408
    Location:
    Victoria, Australia
    Bd2g

    Hi Bubba,
    Sounds like the machine is a well used one.
    The fuel gauges & hour meter on the BD2G are a problem item....as usual it's the electronic crap that lets them down.Of course Mitsubishi charge a fortune for replacement parts...which are basically plastic & printed boards.
    I can get replacement Alternators & Starters.

    For the 500,I couldn't find the pump....maybe I sold it.I did find the drive shaft & will clean it up so I can get a number from it.
    As I'm in Australia,you'll need to find a local radiator.
     
  20. ellrod

    ellrod Active Member

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    ?? I went braindead for a minute there. I knew where you were and still ask a stupid question about radiator:) I wish you could find the pump & drive, I would buy that from you. If I have to I can take the frame off the old radiator and add whatever I can find close to it and make something that will work but I was trying to get out of that much work. I readjusted the brakes & played a while today and the right side works real good but the left side is hard and I got a noise in it that sounds like break band but I can pull both brakes back and it will make the same noise with nothing moving ? I still got a problem somewhere.
    Thanks for all the info and if I can do anything from over here to help just let me know.
    Bubba