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Line Boring Systems

Williams Marine

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Bore welding
Question, stated out welding good nice looking welds, welding up a 6 inch bore, by about 10 inches of length, was running good for the first 4 inches, nice consistent welds all the way around, then from the 8 to 11 position started to get ugly welds, ropy looking then right back to nice welds the rest of the way around.
I tried adjusting the step and speed of both the wire and rotation didn't seem to help.
Thanks for your help again.
 

RayF

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How hot was the bore getting? If you were welding a bore with a thin wall it may have been heating up. If you are going to have trouble bore welding it will be in that position or cold lap at 20 past.
 

Williams Marine

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Thanks Ray, the scrape pipe I'm practicing on is 2 inches thick (50.8 mm), I did stop a few times to let thinks cool.
After I wrote the last post I went back out to the shop and retracted the nozzle, I think I had to much build up on the one side of the nozzle and it may have been restricting the shielding gas I'm thinking. If my wife wasn't tired of me and this endeavor I would head back out and run some more.
Thanks for your input, I'll be sure and check how hot the bore is getting tomorrow and keep you posted.
 

BuMach

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Sounds good to hear you getting along with the machine Williams,

I actually bought another Elsa machine last week. I traded in the elsa i got rightnow.
I've started with the SC40 Easy with only two gears..(same as the older style elsa's had) had some issues with heating up the motor on the bigger bores, when having the feedrate high and some good material in front off the cutting plate (feedrate and material as rated on the cutting plates).
also with the facing head i bought two weeks ago i'm having some issues with the power off the motor, the 1st gear is to slow and the 2nd gear i need to be to low on the power it has no power at all..

So the importer made a nice deal for me to swap my machine (complete with shafts and bearings etc etc) for a SC40/1 with the four speed gearbox and they let me experiment with a heavier motor, so they are building my machine as we speak and i will probely have it after the holidays.

Looking forward to work with the new girl.

take some pictures off your machine Williams Marine! looking forward to see your setup:drinkup
 

Williams Marine

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Thanks BuMach, looking forward to hearing about your new setup.
It's been a interesting learning curve for sure, I keep my notebook close by, seems like every time I make a move I learn something new. Definitely no two setups are the same. I keep telling myself baby steps.
Getting the bore welder to work was a big hurtle, I was expecting all kinds of problems, but other then a few operator errors ran great.
I'll see if I can learn how to upload pictures.
Will be heading to Western Alaska in a few days, would like to share some visual's of that too.
My son will be coming with us to be the fetch and get guy, should be an adventure with him along.
 

RayF

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Another thing you can try is experiment with the tip angle. My reference is to have it a bit flatter to the bore than 45 deg. As well as helping with splatter build up it allows that hard silicon scale at the weld toe to slough away. That scale can often become a problem as the arc can have a hard time burning through it.
 

Williams Marine

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Thanks Ray
The leaning curve is slowly getting straighten out at this end. Yours and others input has helped greatly, thank you.
Regards,
Ray S.
 

StanRUS

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Cal
We have been trying a few different feed rates and bar speeds, what is a good rule of thumb? What is one looking for to get the optimum production?
Thanks for the information and support.

York end-of-bar drive electric powered: your constrained to working with minimal Hp-torque...1st-rule of thumb, carbide likes speed. Speed in machinist speak is SFM (surface feet per minute), handy on-line calculator for turning-boring http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-turning.htm
York recommends 300-400 SFM for Micro100 AL-AR brazed on tool bits
4”Ø-300sfm=286revs / 4”Ø-400sfm=382revs you can play with the calculator, use your note’s data
Got smartphone?
http://www.sandvik.coromant.com/en-...ps_for_download/Pages/turning-calculator.aspx use free turning calculator app...manual choice setting of ISO-metric or ANSI-imperial inch units
Note: Ad free application
Carbide will work out-of-parameters, e.g. @ lower SFM; HSS won’t hold a sharp edge at much over 100SFM…

In the long run ‘throw away inserts are more economical & incorporate multi-millions’ $$$$ research & engineering! You’ll have to know SFM to use on-line insert data or if dealing with an application engineer directly...You’ll also need an understanding of ‘cutting tool holders’ insert pocket geometry. Start with Sandvik link below
http://www.sandvik.coromant.com/en-...nd-depth-of-cut/pages/default.aspx?Country=us
Note: Wiper Inserts won’t work with flimsy portable borers…
 

StanRUS

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Sandvik’s app, machine your practice 6”Ø pipe with York’s Fein 4 speed motor 100-150-260-420 rpms 1.2hp-35ft lb) Tool bit 0deg lead angle...6deg rake angle (low cutting force geometry)...unalloyed Mn<1.65 ISO group steel
0.150” weld built up per side ID 5.700”Ø...Length 6.0”...boring to 6.0”Ø
1st gear...0.150” depth of cut...feed 0.005”ipr…SFM158-100rpm...req’d hp 1.55...Tc 12:00min...MMR 1.41in3/min
...........................................feed 0.004ipr_________________ req’d hp 1.24...Tc 15:00min...MMR 1.13in3/min

2nd gear...0.150” depth of cut...feed 0.005”ipr...SFM 236-150rpm...req’d hp 2.33...Tc 08:00min...MMR 2.12in3/min
______________________________0.003ipr__________________ req’d hp 1.40...Tc 13:33min...MMR 1.27in3/min
_______0.130” depth of cut ______0.003ipr___________________ req’d hp 1.21...Tc 13:33min...MMR 1.10in3/min
_______0.020” depth of cut_______0.006ipr __________________ req’d hp 0.37...Tc 06:66min..MMR 0.33in3/min
3rd gear 0.020” depth of cut______ 0.006ipr...SFM 409-260rpm___ req’d hp 0.64...Tc 03:85min...MMR 0.58in3/min

3rd gear...0.150” depth of cut...feed 0.005”ipr...SFM 409-260rpm...req’d hp 4.05...Tc 04:62min...MMR 3.67in3/min
4th gear...0.150” depth of cut...feed 0.005”ipr...SFM 660-420rpm...req’d hp 6.54...Tc 02:86min...MMR 5.93in3/min
Compare with your notes...real world...rpms will be lower under load, tool wear can increase hp req’d 25%...lots of variables. Keep notes, photos from each job.

You can also calculate wire req’d (lbs) & weld time; welding IS the time consumer…
BuMach Sandvik app speaks Deutsch
Mink French
 
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BuMach

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I know. Have seen the app.
I dont use it. just play by feel and look on the box for the data.
Try to stay away from the bigger nose radius. I've been testing from 0,6mm nose radius all the way to no radius and
Starting from 0,3 its cutting better with no vibrations.
I now use plates with 0,2mm or with no radius there are no Vibrations at all and no heat buildup. Even the spanners are still cool to the touch and not even discoloured.
I can even do bores with only the single bearings on there so no bearing in the middle and there is no measurable difference in diameter.
Also the ones i use now last a long time before the tipp breakes or they wear out. And they can also take a good beating.

Good luck ray and looking forward to hear how the first bucks comes in
 

Williams Marine

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BuMach good info, thanks. Was just talking today to a guy who has done some very high profile jobs and he said pretty much the same thing as you. Just need to practice and get the feel.
Looking forward to hearing about your new machine and when you start to bring in money with it too.
I have a couple down days till I depart for AK, looking forward to hanging in the shop and honing my skills.
 

BuMach

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My machine will take a few weeks. They are building it as we speak and we got the holidays. But i can still work with the other one so im good for now.
Actualy started today on my first 300mm bore repair. Was a lot off thinking how to get my setup right. Cause it was a blind hole. But i probely post some pics later next week or so.

Good luck Ray and you learn it as you go mate. No worries.
 

Williams Marine

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Has anyone ever heard or done this durning setup? Giving the support bearing a lite tape prior to locking / welding them in place.
I was told it relives the bearing and helps the boring bar travel with greater ease.
 

ETER

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BuMach...what kind of holidays you guys have going on over there this time of year? Also, looking forward to some of the 12" bore repair pics:drinkup W.M., what is a "lite tape"?
Regards, Bob
 
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Williams Marine

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Bob, he said he uses a soft face rubber mallet, once he had everything in position just a "lite tap", sorry about that wrote that last one without my glasses.
 

BuMach

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Ray, i only done it a couple of times. It helped but usely i get away with tagging de brackets good.
I only do it on the middle support bearings. At elsa those are just single bearings so they have a little bit play in them. When i tag weld them it sometimes starts making it harder to move the bar. Then i just tap them and then it moves again free.

Eter: now the construction holiday is going to start like we call it. Then people who work in the construction can have there holiday. Back in the day everybody took the holiday. Now not everybody does it.
The did it so everybody is closed at the same time. So no building materials and stuff.
Helped with keeping everything going smoother cause everybody had holiday at the same time so not like we have now: "O no Dave just got on holiday and in two weeks Jerry and Tom are going too"....
 

Williams Marine

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BuMach thanks, I have been trying to not put much heat when I weld the bearing in, but have found it doesn't take much heat at all to just have them out ever so slightly and then the bar doesn't move fore and aft as well as before. This whole process of learning and perfecting it keeps my brain going for sure.
Enjoy your holiday!
 
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