JD 644 PAYLOADER Electric lift PUMP

[lenray]

This loader has an electric fuel pump to move the diesel up to the injector pump. It pumps at 1/3 gallon per minute. TRACTOR is kinda hard starting on first start up. Was wondering if I am not getting enough fuel up to the pump at the 1/3 gallon per minute rate.........

What do yu fellas think????????????//// thanks

 

[Delmer]

More than enough fuel to start.

How much do you thing a cam driven transfer pump is putting out at when it's cranking over on a cold morning? If it's going to cause any problems, it will be at full load.

 

[lantraxco]

What flavor 644? We had a "B" model as I recall, had the rotary pump. Was always hard to start when it was cold out, liked to eat starters.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Depending on the fuel system.. Rotary pumps>SOME are meant to be "gravity fed"[1-3psi].. while other require a lift pump that pumps anywhere from 5-8psi..
Just remember to pull the throttle to 1/2 - full when starting.. you wouldn't believe the difference in fuel delivery THAT makes..

 

[HDMRice]

Is it an aftermarket electric fuel transfer pump or is this a newer K series?

1/3 gallon seems plenty, how's the low side pressure when cranking?

The "kinda hard starting on first start up" comment leads me to think, you can shut it down for breaks, etc and it'll start right away?

 

[lenray]

Is it an aftermarket electric fuel transfer pump or is this a newer K series?

1/3 gallon seems plenty, how's the low side pressure when cranking?

The "kinda hard starting on first start up" comment leads me to think, you can shut it down for breaks, etc and it'll start right away?

I JUST bought the loader and don't know her good enough to probably know how to do a good cold start. 0-20 degrees etc. The electric fuel pump is an add on not factory. The loader is a straight 644A................thanks for looking

 

[lantraxco]

That old, in michigan, I have to assume you have a block heater? We had trouble starting our "B" model back in the nineties unheated if it got down into the thirties. Had the deal in the cab you stuck a can of ether up into to give it a shot to the intake manifold.

Low compression, slow turning starter, injectors, injection pump, and oh, the hydraulic pump can drag bad on those. The hydraulic pump runs off the crankshaft, if it doesn't have the electric solenoid destroke valve on it, with power to it when cranking, then there should be a destroke screw, little "T" handle thing you can screw all the way in I believe to destroke the pump, helps the engine turn faster for starting. If it's turning slow, check that.

 

[lenray]

That old, in michigan, I have to assume you have a block heater? We had trouble starting our "B" model back in the nineties unheated if it got down into the thirties. Had the deal in the cab you stuck a can of ether up into to give it a shot to the intake manifold.

Low compression, slow turning starter, injectors, injection pump, and oh, the hydraulic pump can drag bad on those. The hydraulic pump runs off the crankshaft, if it doesn't have the electric solenoid destroke valve on it, with power to it when cranking, then there should be a destroke screw, little "T" handle thing you can screw all the way in I believe to destroke the pump, helps the engine turn faster for starting. If it's turning slow, check that.

Good info. here thank you---I know of the destroke unit an will use that-it has a Denso starter and yes to the block heater. It has the ether unit you speak of also.

 

[lantraxco]

Those Denso starters were a godsend back in the day, we used to figure on a reman Delco every winter on most of the Deere machines until they came along, except the 690B but it had a Bosch injection system, always lit easy.

 

[lenray]

Is it an aftermarket electric fuel transfer pump or is this a newer K series?

1/3 gallon seems plenty, how's the low side pressure when cranking?

The "kinda hard starting on first start up" comment leads me to think, you can shut it down for breaks, etc and it'll start right away?

Thanks for your reply--It will start bACK up, but if it sits for an hour--it will start hard again. I am thinking it is draining the fuel back into the fuel tank. The fuel tank sits down low--way below the engine. Thinking about a check valve..............

 

[lenray]

Is it an aftermarket electric fuel transfer pump or is this a newer K series?

1/3 gallon seems plenty, how's the low side pressure when cranking?

The "kinda hard starting on first start up" comment leads me to think, you can shut it down for breaks, etc and it'll start right away?

If it shuts down for an hour--it is again hard to start. Thinking it may be draining the fuel back into the tank, as the tank is way low in the system.

 

[Delmer]

When you shut it down for an hour and it doesn't start right away, does is blow a little fog out the exhaust right away? or nothing until it starts? How much blowby? just noticeable when it's cold, or a full frame rust prevention style?

 

[lenray]

When you shut it down for an hour and it doesn't start right away, does is blow a little fog out the exhaust right away? or nothing until it starts? How much blowby? just noticeable when it's cold, or a full frame rust prevention style?

GOING TO CHECK THAT OUT----What would be the best condition---fog right away or until it starts. I think it is right away , but not 100% sure..........

 

[lenray]

When you shut it down for an hour and it doesn't start right away, does is blow a little fog out the exhaust right away? or nothing until it starts? How much blowby? just noticeable when it's cold, or a full frame rust prevention style?

Hello Delmer---After a start up that takes just a small shot of either--then a shut down for an hour. Then on the new start up-there is nothing for a couple seconds and then there is white smoke and maybe a start or not. It will start but takes more rolling than I like....................thanks for your help....

 

[Delmer]

The best condition is that it starts right away down to 30, will start within several seconds down to 10, and will start easily down below zero if it's plugged in for an hour.

So in the last few days around 50 you need to give it a little ether to start it, that's pretty weak starting to me. Assuming you run it enough to warm it up, then it sits for an hour it should start back up almost immediately. The white smoke is fuel mist, the couple seconds could be the time it takes the engine to fill the exhaust system. I don't think this is a lack of fuel pump pressure problem. You could try the trick with a gas fuel injected car of letting the fuel pump run ten to twenty seconds before cranking.

Go back to lantraxco's post #7, how does the engine seem to run otherwise? Do you give it full throttle for starting?

 

[lenray]

The best condition is that it starts right away down to 30, will start within several seconds down to 10, and will start easily down below zero if it's plugged in for an hour.

So in the last few days around 50 you need to give it a little ether to start it, that's pretty weak starting to me. Assuming you run it enough to warm it up, then it sits for an hour it should start back up almost immediately. The white smoke is fuel mist, the couple seconds could be the time it takes the engine to fill the exhaust system. I don't think this is a lack of fuel pump pressure problem. You could try the trick with a gas fuel injected car of letting the fuel pump run ten to twenty seconds before cranking.

The engine seems strong haven't had a chance to work it yet. I destroke it and it has the Denso starter and the batteries are very good---the engine rolls at very good speed. I start it without using the pedal so it is at idle condition when I try to start......................