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JCB 215 Transmission in the Cold Question

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by lucgallant, Dec 31, 2008.

  1. lucgallant

    lucgallant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Timmins, ON
    Hello All, thanks for taking the time to read this. I have a question from up north in Canada. I'm posting this question for my dad, he doesn't use computers...

    He owns a 1994 JCB 215 Backhoe. The problem he's having is that in cold weather (below -15C or 5F), the transmission will be in gear but the backhoe does not move (forward or backward). One of the ways he's resolved this is by putting a heater under the transmission, and after a few minutes the wheels start turning (he put the outriggers out and had all 4 wheels off the ground). Without the heater, it takes 2-3 hours to get the wheels to turn.

    He took apart the transmission and found that the intake to the oil pump has a strainer on it. It is cylindrical and about 1.5 inches diameter, and has holes about 1/8 of an inch throughout. Then, around this strainer there is a piece of screen, like patio door screen except with smaller holes. This is all from factory.

    Now, by removing that screen (and leaving the strainer in), even in -30C (-22F), the machine gets in gear no problem after say 10 minutes of running (without the heater). My dad's friend has a 2001 215 and experiences the same problem. The JCB dealership claims that they know nothing of this type of problem.

    So, the oil isn't making it through that small screen. Also, the oil in the transmission was put in there a year ago, and it is "JCB Brand 10W".

    So, some questions for you experienced folks:

    1. Has anyone experienced this scenario with a JCB machine?
    2. The manual says to put in JCB Brand 10W oil in the transmission. For cold weather, what has been your experiences with required transmission oils? Is the JCB type an absolute requirement? What about putting a multi-grade oil instead of the 10W? Like 10W30 for example?

    If anyone can give any feedback or suggestions on this issue, that would be great. Thanks a lot.
     
  2. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    10
    Occupation:
    Heavy Equipment mechanic/welder
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Hey lucgallant,

    By removing the fine mesh screen around the suction strainer is just masking a true problem, in my opinion. Has your local JCB dealer checked your "mainline trans pressure"? That particular pressure should be between 140-185 psi at 1000 r.p.m and 165-205 psi at 2000 r.pm. I looked briefly at JCB techweb and I did not run across anything.(I work at a JCB dealer in the Chicagoland area.) But when I get more time, I will investigate your issue more in depth. Your particular model year, along with the other gentleman's backhoe might call for ATF. I'm almost 100% positive your fathers does.


    But anyhow, have your local dealer check the "mainline pressure". They should also check your "pressure maintance valve" on your trans, for sticking. This could be your issue, especially in the cold climate you live in.




    Jeremy
     
  3. lucgallant

    lucgallant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Timmins, ON
    Hi Jeremy,

    thanks for taking the time to reply.

    My dad's backhoe is at his cottage, so he would have to put it on a float to bring it to the dealership. He knows that removing the fine mesh is masking the problem, but to him it is much easier than bring the backhoe into town and paying the dealership for some analysis. He does want to do everything he can though to solve the issue in a proper way.

    I'm assuming here that checking the "mainline pressure" is impossible without the dealership's equipment.

    Is there a document that you are able to post/send listing the required transmission oil? The dealership in town there insists that he has to use 10W oil, but his friends tell him that they use ATF (red DEXRON). I also think my dad told me the manual says to use "JCB 10W Oil". If you could clarify that it would help greatly.

    Also, I'm not sure if he knows where the pressure maintenance valve is. Is it easy to access? Is there a schematic he can take a look at? He might be able to ask the dealership for those details as well, but if you are able to post them it would make things easy.

    If we can find out the proper oil as well as inspecting that valve that might be a good start. Thanks for your help and let me know what you think.

    Luc
     
  4. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    10
    Occupation:
    Heavy Equipment mechanic/welder
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Morning Luc,


    If you can do me a favor and get the machines serial number for me, I'll get you squared away come Monday, when I get back into work. I just need the last 6 numbers. Also, is this machine a 'powershift' or 'syncro shuttle' type transmission. Luc I would bet a paycheck, that your fathers machine originally had ATF/Type F trans fluid. You can however replace the the ATF with 10wt. But with the extreme climate you live in, ATF/ Type F would probably help better with this fluid flow issue.



    As you said, Luc. We'll find out the fluid spec. for you first and then work from there. We'll get you up and running or least get you a fix to the problem, my friend.





    Jeremy
     
  5. lucgallant

    lucgallant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Timmins, ON
    Hi Jeremy,

    thanks for responding again.

    his transmission is a synco-shuttle.

    The serial number of the machine is 21500CNE403922.

    My dad looked in the book and found that the oil required is "JCB Special Transmission Fluid - ESPN2C33G". The manual lists that for power shift or syncro-shuttle, it is all this same oil. The last time he was at Wajax (the JCB dealership in Timmins), they told him to put in 10W oil.

    Anyway, let me know your thoughts on this. Thanks,

    Luc
     
  6. cps

    cps Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Messages:
    806
    Occupation:
    plant mechanic
    Location:
    Ireland
    Hi Luc
    We use ATF in all Jcb transmissions power shift and syncro, and although our climate is not as cold as yours (just wet) never had any problems! we use ATF in most of our transmissions and i know Volvo recomends ATF for its machines and as there built in sweden it should be able to withstand low temp!

    Hope this helps

    cps
     
  7. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    10
    Occupation:
    Heavy Equipment mechanic/welder
    Location:
    Chicagoland


    Happy Monday, Luc!



    Lets start by replacing the 10wt. oil with "ATF Type F". Do this and see if it makes a difference. If not...we'll go from there.




    Take Care, buddy



    Jeremy(Casey Equipment Company, Arlington Hts. Illinois)
     
  8. lucgallant

    lucgallant Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Timmins, ON
    Alright, thanks. I told my dad who's in Timmins, so now it's up to him. I'll definitely keep this thread posted though. Thanks again for your time.

    Luc
     
  9. lee

    lee Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    leicestershire uk
    hi it sounds like you have a transmission problem could be a number of things from transmission pump or has the oil gone like i milky white colour if so the oil cooler has leaked oil in to the trans mission this causes problems with the clutch packs i take the filter has been changed or if you are really stuck tap in to google the digger doctor uk he will bee the man to talk to
    thanks lee
     
  10. mirrocraft

    mirrocraft Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    dunmor ky
    have you tried an oil heater of any type maybe a heating pad does it change if the machine is allowed to heat up for a while or is it just a problem when cold
     
  11. bordercollie

    bordercollie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    67
    Occupation:
    Dealer service tech with 20 yrs experience,
    Location:
    Michigan
    what jeremy says, switch to auto trans fluid type "F"...
     
  12. 03warrior

    03warrior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    C.T
    From what it sounds like to me is that your oil is not getting hot enough to go through the mesh screen. ou mentioned that your dad has had to put a heater under it and then the tires will turn. Sound like you need to find a trans. oil that has a lower cold pour point. Which means an oil that will not gel up at low temps.
     
  13. gillesfrappier

    gillesfrappier New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    sudbury ontario
    Hey Luc ,I was wondering if you tried the atf typef in your jcb I seem to be having the same problem in my JCB1400b but the previous owner blew a line and put TDH oil in, to replace what he had lost .Any help would be appreciated.
     
  14. gillesfrappier

    gillesfrappier New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    sudbury ontario
    Well changed the oil out of the tranny today flushed it and put in ATF type F,she works great.The service manual said 21 litres but it only took 11 litres even after the flush. But well worth the effort.