International Harvester 500C /Good or bad?

[dillon45]

International Harvester 500C is this a "GOOD" make dozer for everyday farm use ? I have a friend who has a chance to buy one from a widow who states her
late husband owned it for quite sometime.

My friend asked me about it and all i recall is that i thought this model had some type of problem. Could someone tell me about this machine and your opinion
of it's overall good and bad points. The lady is asking $7000.00 for the machine. The dozer has a 6 way blade, that is all i can tell you about it at this point,
He wants to have a look at it this weekend

 

[2005kes2005]

Ok machine

International Harvester 500C is this a "GOOD" make dozer for everyday farm use ? I have a friend who has a chance to buy one from a widow who states her
late husband owned it for quite sometime.

My friend asked me about it and all i recall is that i thought this model had some type of problem. Could someone tell me about this machine and your opinion
of it's overall good and bad points. The lady is asking $7000.00 for the machine. The dozer has a 6 way blade, that is all i can tell you about it at this point,
He wants to have a look at it this weekend

It was built by international back in the 1970's
Parts are a. Bit of an issue- still available but not common.
These were light duty machines and steering was always a headache.
The td 12&15 were way better machines .
Price is ok but you'll learn to wrench on that one
M

 

[dillon45]

Thanks for the info. I will pass it on to my friend. I think he should pass on this one, i knew i had heard some negatives on this machine but couldn't remember what they were.

 

[John C.]

The only make a good yard ornament. One the Japanese minis is far better.

 

[dillon45]

Thanks, we did check it out today, my friend decided to pass, the machine was not all that good, it appears it has not been worked for sometime, the tracks and blade were rusted,
also it had some blow-by.
He is now looking at a 350 J.D. which i advised against, but it's his money.

 

[black60church]

i have a good 450c john deere dozer ready to go for 10000, they will push a 500 int. and their load

 

[dillon45]

can you send some pics. I 'll pass um on, thanks

 

[totalloser]

500c was a good machine for it's size. Very comparable to the deere 350. Both of these machines use a clutch steer system with all the steering in levers. D2's use a similar system but the clutches are levers and the steering are pedals. Lever clutch steer systems are tricky to adjust and due to *incompetence* get a reputation for being fragile. People who fool with them without prior education foul it up and then blame the machine.

I disagree that Japanese machines are superior per se. NONE of the comparable Japanese machines can claim the performance. I seriously considered Komatsu and Mitsubishi, but with these machines you cannot have your cake and eat it too. You have the choice of a powershift transmission that compromises power to the tracks and has *no* travel speed gear, or a transmission that cannot quickly change direction. With the Deere for instance, you have a reverser that loses NO power to the tracks but reverses on the fly with no clutching and has a 4 speed transmission that has both working speeds and decent travel speeds. If you get a non-powershift Komatsu you have to clutch and shift a sliding gear transmission every time. Wear out your knee in a hurry.

Once you get away from Mitsubishi and Komatsu, parts availability becomes a contradiction in terms. Parts are virtual unobtanium for older japanese machines and makes like Furukawa.

Another option is the Case machines, but they use diff steering which has some advantages, but also disadvantages. The differential is basically a gear type positraction and you steer by braking one side. But you are fighting engine/positraction torque with a band brake where clutch steer types disconnect ALL power before engaging the brake. These systems (diff steer like Case) are comparatively simple to work on, but obviously the band brake won't last as long.

Back to the 500, wear items are readily available, but things like engine parts and injection parts can be a real problem. IE if you need undercarriage you can get it, but if the injection pump goes out... well that might be bad.

I *just* bought a 350C and spent VAST amounts of time researching this range of machines. I would have seriously considered a 500 if it was in decent shape and had a six way. But parts availability for the deere's is far superior to all other competition. This may be significantly due to USFS fire service relife programs, these machines are currently being used as fire plows.

FWIW I would have bought something bigger (like a 450) but I can tow the 350 behind my pickup which is really appealing to me. Anything bigger is just too big for *any* class C vehicle except in the most ideal circumstances.

Oh and one last note: Rust is of no (NO) consequence. Giving any serious consideration to rust on the blade is foolish at best. It's all about the undercarriage. Paint is cheap.

 

[mitch504]

The Case isn't differential steer, it actually has 2 transmissions. You steer by putting one track in a lower gear than the other. This gives you power through the turns, which is nice sometimes.

 

[dillon45]

totalloser, you speak with experience and obviously know what you're talking about. Lot's of good information in you're post, but why would J.D. design a clutch brake system that requires
the entire tower, seat, tank, hydraulic res. not to mention all the lines hoses linkages ect just to get to get to the clutch brake?
The average J.D. dealer wants close to $5,000.00, not counting parts to replace one side on a 450b J.D. or a 350 J.D. . Unless you are able to do the labor yourself, with the experience
to do it properly, I would say the normal shade tree mechanic is going to have problems.

 

[totalloser]

First off, I have to stress one detail. I have only done a small amount of work on dozers- and that was on big CATs My knowledge of these smaller machines comes primarily from research, and thus no hands-on experience... yet. I'll be pulling everything from the tracks to the reverser before I can run mine.

The steering system description on the case machine, that sounds wrong to me. The only double power delivery system I was aware of is the big CAT hydraulic over mechanical on the high track models, but I don't speak with authority on that matter either. But keep in mind I am *only* referring to the Case 350. But with diff steer machines, when you brake one side it doubles the speed on the other side due to the diff gears walking.

Accessing the steering on the Deere's can be a bummer, but from what I can tell the hard part is in the handling of big parts. On the 350's you have to pull the finals to get to the clutch/brake. The 350/350b use dry, but everything later (350c, 350d, 400 etc) use wet clutch brake systems which last a LONG LONG time. Also, the parts interchangeability is such that the metallic wet discs can be swapped into the dry clutch models. They are still run dry, but here's why it's worth considering:

The fiber steering clutches don't like to get moist. They swell and lock up. Once locked (from sitting for a long time usually) it can be very difficult to free them up- sometimes teardown is required. But this failure won't happen with the metallic clutches. Adjustment is a big bummer, I'll also give you that. Newer hydraulic self adjusting systems help a lot with that, but older 350's are all mechanical linkages.

Most dozer owners are not the average shade tree mechanic, but that type of owner is MUCH more common with these smaller machines. The problems come in handling the heavy parts (proper rigging) and the initial internal adjustments of the clutch. Without the little depth tool it is effectively IMPOSSIBLE to adjust correctly, and the finals have to come back off to correct the screwup. I still think the average shade tree can do fine IF he/she does the necessary homework. My opinion is that the bulk of problems come when they do not.

 

[Buckethead]

I don't know about parts availability these days, but 500C was actually a good small dozer. I know of a lot of parking lots and building pads in the area I grew up in were fine graded with one. And I agree with totalloser rust on tracks or blade doesn't matter. They'll be polished within the first minutes of operation.

 

[totalloser]

I feel sort of bad saying it, but after reading this whole thread again, maybe a dozer isn't the right choice. These machines really aren't very practical for folks who are afraid of a wrench. Steering and undercarriage is expensive and difficult work that quickly becomes impractical if paying the dealer to do the work. Perhaps a large mini-excavator or large 4x4 wheel tractor would be a better choice? If you are in less of a hurry and want less maintenance, an industrial backhoe can be quite practical- mostly because no track/steering brake upkeep, and most things you can do with a 10-12k dozer can be done with a backhoe/loader. And industrial setups in the same price range often have enclosed cab, and usually have flat interior rotate the seat style switching from loader to backhoe. For a lot of work, such a machine will outperform a small dozer- such as tree removal.

 

[dillon45]

After reading your post, I considered the the option of wheel machine vs. track, and you do make a valid case. The wheel machine would relive the owner from the expense
of maintaining the U.C. and the steering brakes ect..

As you stated if one has limited knowledge to do the work himself, he or she would be better off to either avoid a track machine, unless his pockets run deep. In the
case of buying a older dozer, more than likely it will require work and continued maintenance.
The other alternative would be a newer machine with low hours, however, the price will be prohibitive for the average guy who only needs a farm machine for light work and maybe
racks up a couple hundred hours a year or less.

So yes if you have the funds and want a new or newer track machine just to play with for the most part, and don't mind spending $70 or $80,00 thousand dollars then
why not, but how many of us can afford to do this. So the wheel loader/ back hoe combo. concept becomes more interesting.

 

[Tinkerer]

I find it strange the original poster asked if an International 500C is a good machine or a bad machine to purchase or operate. Now he is being told he doesn't need a tracked machine. I spent 30 years running dozers full time in every condition imaginable in regards to dirt and material handling. Unless you know what the working conditions are, advising a wheeled machine over a tracked machine is foolish. In regards to the 350 Case dozer, I spent a lot time on them. They DO steer with two speed steering levers. There are no steering clutches in them like Caterpillar. The secret to easy steering with the Case 350 is proper adjustment of the pressure the springs exert on the detents that holds the levers in the position you select.

 

[dillon45]

I find it strange the original poster asked if an International 500C is a good machine or a bad machine to purchase or operate. Now he is being told he doesn't need a tracked machine. I spent 30 years running dozers full time in every condition imaginable in regards to dirt and material handling. Unless you know what the working conditions are, advising a wheeled machine over a tracked machine is foolish. In regards to the 350 Case dozer, I spent a lot time on them. They DO steer with two speed steering levers. There are no steering clutches in them like Caterpillar. The secret to easy steering with the Case 350 is proper adjustment of the pressure the springs exert on the detents that holds the levers in the position you select.

Thanks for the reply and your experience. The 450 b J.D. has dry clutches and are very hard to replace, , have you ever run one of these machines ? and what do you
think of them?

 

[Tinkerer]

Thanks for the reply and your experience. The 450 b J.D. has dry clutches and are very hard to replace, , have you ever run one of these machines ? and what do you think of them?

Yes I have spent time on a JD 450 B series dozer. It had a six way blade and LGP tracks. I also spent a lot of time on a 450H LGP with a six way blade. The H series have hydrostatic drive in them. Out of all the small dozers I ever ran the JD 450's are my most preferred machine for finish grading, especially in ditches. My opinion is based on my experience running Caterpillar, Komatsu and Case dozers of the same relevant size.

 

[dillon45]

Yes I have spent time on a JD 450 B series dozer. It had a six way blade and LGP tracks. I also spent a lot of time on a 450H LGP with a six way blade. The H series have hydrostatic drive in them. Out of all the small dozers I ever ran the JD 450's are my most preferred machine for finish grading, especially in ditches. My opinion is based on my experience running Caterpillar, Komatsu and Case dozers of the same relevant size.

Interesting, running a 450 b and owning and maintaining one is a vast difference, what is your opinion about the steering clutch brake on the 450 b and the great expense, mostly labor
in replacing them?

 

[totalloser]

Bleh, never mind.

 

[td25c]

My first thought is if your looking at old iron ................or any iron for that matter ...........Be ready & willing to wrench on it or have a good buddy close by that can help with mechanical trouble. Forget about sending it to a dealer as the cost will give you a nose bleed. Nothing wrong running older equipment.Educate & equip yourself with knowledge & needed tools and go after it!