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International 4700 for towing backhoe

Discussion in 'Trucks' started by seacraft18, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. seacraft18

    seacraft18 Member

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    I am looking at late 90's 4700 DT466 220hp electric brakes - I need to be able to tow my case 580e backhow (approx 19,000 lbs)
    I am not sure if this is enough truck to handle this, I would appreciate your thoughts

    thanks in advance
     
  2. hiluxman

    hiluxman Well-Known Member

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    okay if there are no hills and going short low speed trips like around farming roads and if you are only doing once or twice a week so its not recemended very often what type of triler is it
     
  3. seacraft18

    seacraft18 Member

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    no trailer yet.. I need to buy...., do you have something/type you would recommend?
     
  4. stumpjumper83

    stumpjumper83 Senior Member

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    anyone else have tire problems with tripple axle, single tire 9 ton tags?
     
  5. bpogue

    bpogue Well-Known Member

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    That truck should pull it fine and safely if you are careful. What kind of transmission does the truck have? You will be doing some shifting with hills. That is basically the same setup I have, with slightly more power. Mine pulls my highlift and an occasional backhoe without any problems.
     
  6. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    Did you mean hydraulic brakes?

    I would highly suggest a truck with air brakes. They are more efficient, provide better stopping power and an easier system to work on. The late '90's International 4700 and 4900's are good trucks and there are many out there on the road. Another plus for a truck having air brakes is you always have an air compressor with you for airing up tires and other things.;)

    A DT466 is not a powerhouse but it's a dependable motor with parts easily available. Look for a truck that has a 6 or 7 (6+1) transmission. I haven't driven this model truck with an auto so I can't comment on it's performance.

    Of course you will need a class A CDL to pull this rig hauling a 19K backhoe.
     
  7. seacraft18

    seacraft18 Member

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    whoops, yes I meant hydraulic brakes, the transmision is a 6+1
     
  8. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    The single axle I had was a 6+1, hardly ever needed the +1 low gear but when you did you were glad you had it. Again I would suggest finding a truck with air brakes.

    I have been kicking around the idea for a truck like this myself. Late 90's 4700,4900 - DT 466, 6 or 7 sp, 33K, air brakes and preferably a air to the rear for a trailer. One thing about the late 90's Internationals was the extendable frame. They all came from the factor with one size wheelbase. The frames could be unbolted slid in for whatever length you needed and the overhang cut off. What this created is a "double frame" for short wheelbase applications. I don't think the newer 4300/4400's are like this?

    I want to put a 16' flat dump on it. The trucks that are already set up and in decent shape cost an arm and a leg. C&C's are available relatively cheap. Luckily I found a few close to me - http://www.truckpaper.com/list/list.aspx?ETID=1&PCID=2000769873&dlr=1&bcatid=27

    Now I just have to find a nice used 16' flat or contractor dump and keep the whole deal under $15K.:rolleyes:
     
  9. seacraft18

    seacraft18 Member

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    how about an air brake retrofit ? possible ? cost ?

    why are some of these trucks 26k and some 33k what are the differences...axle rating ?

    as far as towing capacity.... 26K vs 33K are they the same ?


    anyways... the truck is a 97' 89,000 miles very clean, asking $9,500 thoughts on price ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2012
  10. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    I am sure it is doable but very cost prohibited. It would be better all around to find one with air brakes if that is what you decide you want.

    Basically the same truck, the 33K is a heavier built truck. The 26K GVW usually have 8500 front and 17,500 rear axles. The 33K GVW usually have 12,000 front and 21,000 rear axles. There are other combinations of axle weights but those are the most common.

    That price is in the ballpark, retail wise. The low miles is what makes that truck on the higher end of the pricing scale but with hyd brakes instead of air, it seems $1000-1500 high. If that is your price range, then there are a lot of trucks out there to choose from.

    Do you have a class A CDL? Pulling 19K lbs will require one, regardless whether or not your truck of choice requires a CDL.
     
  11. CRAFT

    CRAFT Senior Member

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    CM ! .... looks like you're the guy that can answer this question ...... '06-4200 Inter-binder 6spd tranny ......w/ 200hp VT365 engine ...what engine is this ?? is this the same but detuned V8 engine sometimes called the 6L in the ford p/u's ???? ...
     
  12. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    Yeah it's the same engine block that the Ford 6.0 is, although I think the medium duty applications of the 6.0/VT365 did not have EGR coolers which caused most of the problems in the Ford trucks. I have read that the medium duty 6.0's didn't have to have EGR to meet emissions due to the GVW, that would be under the US EPA regs, I don't know if they are different for Canada.
     
  13. Steve Frazier

    Steve Frazier Founder

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    Basically it is to keep the truck under CDL requirements, which is also why you see hydraulic brakes. Converting to air brakes would be cost prohibitive. While the axle ratings may be different, the axles are usually the same.

    While this is the same engine as the problematic 6.0 Powerstroke, IH's configuration is much more reliable. The HP rating is lower but torque is more and max RPM is reduced as well. My buddy has a 26,000 GVW IH, I don't recall the model number with the VT365 and Allison auto that I borrowed when my truck was down. I hauled 5 yards of item #4 to a job, I'm pretty sure I was grossing around 34,000 and had to climb a long steep incline which I expected to crawl up. To my surprise I was able to maintain a pace of 25mph up this hill, I was super impressed. He offered to sell me the truck for the remainder of the payments and I was real interested, but after a call to the dealer I couldn't get it re certified to 33,000 GVW even though the suspension and drivetrain components were identical. I didn't put a lot of miles on my trucks as my work was local, there's no doubt in my mind that truck would have fulfilled my needs if it could carry the weight I needed legally.
     
  14. Willis Bushogin

    Willis Bushogin Senior Member

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    like the others said, air brakes are better and cheaper to work on.
    you will need a CDL to drive this, pulling a backhoe
    I wish we were closer, I have a great 20 ton equipment trailer, with air brakes, in great condition $4000
    Good Luck
     
  15. curb guy

    curb guy Well-Known Member

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    I own 2 4900's around 2003-2006 years, I believe. Anyhow, we use use them to pull our 2 curb machines which weigh around 19-20k lbs.20ton talbert tag trailers,tandem axle w/ duals AND AIR BRAKES. The trucks do fine,but you will wish you had air brakes,trust me.Both trucks have DT-466 ,one with a 6+1 and the other has an allison.
     
  16. dumptruck

    dumptruck Member

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    I will second finding a truck with airbrakes with a trailer with air brakes. At work were routinley hauling 30000lbs on our tripple axle dual wheel electric brake trailer. It is a litle hairy moving a backhoe with it, Wich is a JCB that ways around 20,000 or a litle more. I have hauled it with a 2009 Kodiak 6wheeler with a tag axle rated at 53000 and an L8000. Both trucks have a 5 spd with a 2spd rear end. The Kodiak does not tow the the back hoe so well but it has the 8.0l gas in it. The L8000 has the brazillion motor in it.

    So I guess the long story short is, I would suggest a 33000gvw air braked truck with at least a 6 spd or the 5 and 2. I like the 5 and 2 you can shift it like a 9 spd giving you options for running up hills. Find a decent sized air braked trailer to go with it. After using our first trailer with air brakes I hate towing the electric braked trailers.

    As for wether or not the Internationals are good trucks. The guy I used to plow for has an International 4700 i beleive with the 26000 gvw and juice brakes. Im not so sure I would out a back hoe behind it. We also have an 83 S series International thats got juice brakes and a 30000 gvw. Great around town truck but no fun with a trailer at all.
     
  17. CRAFT

    CRAFT Senior Member

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    Yeah ! ... but its still the 6.0 engine block ..... the egr issues only compounded the problematic 6.0 ..... one of the main issues was the 2-piece block configuration ...they had alot of leaking or a separation issue at the seam ....Ford, I will admit had alot to do with the bad rep interbinder got by overloading that block with HP AND their stupid head design (a very good pal of mine is a Master tech that works for Ford is where I have been getting the feed back about these motors), even the grandpa driven, non chipped , ect p/u's had major issues only at times it happened just after warranty expired
     
  18. Steve Frazier

    Steve Frazier Founder

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    CRAFT, we're talking about the IH version here, not Ford. They're two entirely different engines even though they share some of the same parts. IH didn't attempt to squeeze as much horsepower from them and governed the rpm at a much lower level, thus making a much more reliable engine.
     
  19. CRAFT

    CRAFT Senior Member

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    I know what you mean Steve ....... that's what I was refering to .... BUT the "block" is still the same in both the IH and the Ford ...Correct ? ...it's a 2 piece block and the block was a huge issue with the 6.0 and the 6.4 versions ....I do know what you are referring to that Ford in their infinite stupidity tried to get every ounce of HP, but those are what caused all the head probs and head bolts out the who-who c/w head gaskets issues ... but the base block was an IH design ... it doesn't really matter any how I would not take a chance on one with out warranty. It was pretty hard to beat the old DT466 for all around durability ....cheers
     
  20. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    I didn't know the 6.0 had a two piece block and it had these problems, learned something new.;) The biggest problem I have heard/read about the 6.0 is the EGR cooler plugging up, boiling the coolant (there is a coolant line that runs through the EGR) and thus blowing the head gaskets - this would be in the F series pickups.

    There is an EGR delete kit I am going to install on my F350 to hopefully avoid this problem in the future. Right before my extended warranty was up, Ford replaced the EGR, head gaskets and oil cooler. Thankfully this expensive repair was covered. I currently have an '06 with 6.0 and I'm stuck with it, so hopefully the EGR delete will get another 70K miles out of the truck....:notworthy

    Regardless, as far as a 6.0 or even a 7.3 engine in a medium duty truck, I would shy away. The DT466 is proven.