sultan
Senior Member
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How to dig a ditch fast?
- Thread starter rshackleford
- Start date
This isn't the right place to advertise your business.
Deeretime
Senior Member
OK My opinion !!!! and back on topic
I am a under ground super intendint, i think i have picked up alot of stuff from my 10years in a seat.
1 line up and walk your machine from steak to steak with strait tracks as possible.( so when you back up and your tracks are square you are strait)
2 start your bucket on the rite side as far over as you need to make your cut backs, stick out and cutting edge at 45 degree angle (most efficetnt to fill bucket) as you fill your bucket swing your machine back towards the spill no more than a quarter turn away from your far side of the ditch, after dumping stick out and set the bucket beside your first cut gradualy working across the ditch.
3 as you get deeper and are on the back swing shave your sides into the bottom to pick them up as you go, DONT SPEND MUCH TIME MAKING IT PRITTY.
4 take off any over hanging dirt and rocks aswell as making a swipe on each edge to make sure your spoil is well enough away and no lumps will fall down.
5 pull grade slowly and precisely , material should be pulled rite up to end of cut. ( dig it out in your next set)
We just finnished 7 kms of gravity sewer with a 450 and a V bucket best thing ever for trenching.
I am a under ground super intendint, i think i have picked up alot of stuff from my 10years in a seat.
1 line up and walk your machine from steak to steak with strait tracks as possible.( so when you back up and your tracks are square you are strait)
2 start your bucket on the rite side as far over as you need to make your cut backs, stick out and cutting edge at 45 degree angle (most efficetnt to fill bucket) as you fill your bucket swing your machine back towards the spill no more than a quarter turn away from your far side of the ditch, after dumping stick out and set the bucket beside your first cut gradualy working across the ditch.
3 as you get deeper and are on the back swing shave your sides into the bottom to pick them up as you go, DONT SPEND MUCH TIME MAKING IT PRITTY.
4 take off any over hanging dirt and rocks aswell as making a swipe on each edge to make sure your spoil is well enough away and no lumps will fall down.
5 pull grade slowly and precisely , material should be pulled rite up to end of cut. ( dig it out in your next set)
We just finnished 7 kms of gravity sewer with a 450 and a V bucket best thing ever for trenching.
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95zIV
Senior Member
I'm gonna Hijack this thread real quick because of one of the pictures that's been posted on here. While I don't have problems posting pictures of people working and in locations that at first glance look dangerous but really aren't. I just want to ask, in the second picture on post 83 is that a guy standing UNDER the unsupported bucket of an excavator?
tylermckee
Senior Member
Who hasnt stood under an excavator bucket?
As far as trenching fast like other posters have said work from the top down making shallow passes, bottom of bucket usually enters the cut at around a 45 or so, level when making my bottom clean up pass. Just take enough depth with each pass so that my bucket is full at the end of my trench. I usually dig for 8-15 feet depending on machine size, dont go from max reach to right under my tracks. I pile my spoils as close to where they were removed, i usually start my pile a few feet from the top of the trench and keep dumping so that the material rolls to the backside of pile. while going to dump never stop swinging, material gets tossed out of the bucket right as im turning and headed back to the ditch. Dont stop above your ditch and lower the bucket in. I dont generally uncurl all the way i give the stick a flick and toss the material out. When im getting close to grade i will give the top sides a quick pass with the bucket level to clean up any loose material near the top, any sooner is a waste as you will probably end up doing it twice.
Pretty simple, dont make any movements you dont need to, like crowding in while swinging back to the trench, lifting any higher than you need to to almost clear the spoil pile, etc. be in position to make your next pass as you near the top of the ditch. Oh and a good grade man can make things go a lot faster.
As far as trenching fast like other posters have said work from the top down making shallow passes, bottom of bucket usually enters the cut at around a 45 or so, level when making my bottom clean up pass. Just take enough depth with each pass so that my bucket is full at the end of my trench. I usually dig for 8-15 feet depending on machine size, dont go from max reach to right under my tracks. I pile my spoils as close to where they were removed, i usually start my pile a few feet from the top of the trench and keep dumping so that the material rolls to the backside of pile. while going to dump never stop swinging, material gets tossed out of the bucket right as im turning and headed back to the ditch. Dont stop above your ditch and lower the bucket in. I dont generally uncurl all the way i give the stick a flick and toss the material out. When im getting close to grade i will give the top sides a quick pass with the bucket level to clean up any loose material near the top, any sooner is a waste as you will probably end up doing it twice.
Pretty simple, dont make any movements you dont need to, like crowding in while swinging back to the trench, lifting any higher than you need to to almost clear the spoil pile, etc. be in position to make your next pass as you near the top of the ditch. Oh and a good grade man can make things go a lot faster.
Tiny
Senior Member
Really??
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tonka
Senior Member
I have never stood under any type of bucket, loader, backhoe, excavator... I have never let any of my laborers stand under any bucket... i don't want to have to call and tell someones next of kin, and say jonny ain't comming home today, because i was dumb enough to let him stand under a excavator bucket...
mitch504
Senior Member
Me; and anybody who worked for me, and anybody who came around my equipment, at least not without getting yelled at. Have you ever seen how fast they come down when a boom cylinder hose breaks?
Standing under a bucket is a sign of one of 2 things.
First is that maybe it is someone new who hasent been trained yet not to do it.
The second, and more problematic, is complacency. Sometimes those who work around hazards day in and day out forget how suddenly things can go wrong. Or they are thinking "It is a nearly new machine, so nothing is going to go wrong"
It has been a long time since I have seen an excavator boom drop out of control, but I HAVE seen it happen, and it only takes once until you aren't coming home anymore.
I do not want Deeretime to think we are picking on him, because I feel his operation looks good, just this one detail needs addressed.
Some people do not even think about things like this. I drove up to one of my jobs one day, and the new hire had raised the loader bucket up, left it in the air, and got out of the machine and was doing something (I forget what) right under the raised bucket. Then he could not understand why I yelled at him. What made it worse was that loader had a touchy control valve, and I had seen it go to float for no good reason several times. I had nightmares about that one.
First is that maybe it is someone new who hasent been trained yet not to do it.
The second, and more problematic, is complacency. Sometimes those who work around hazards day in and day out forget how suddenly things can go wrong. Or they are thinking "It is a nearly new machine, so nothing is going to go wrong"
It has been a long time since I have seen an excavator boom drop out of control, but I HAVE seen it happen, and it only takes once until you aren't coming home anymore.
I do not want Deeretime to think we are picking on him, because I feel his operation looks good, just this one detail needs addressed.
Some people do not even think about things like this. I drove up to one of my jobs one day, and the new hire had raised the loader bucket up, left it in the air, and got out of the machine and was doing something (I forget what) right under the raised bucket. Then he could not understand why I yelled at him. What made it worse was that loader had a touchy control valve, and I had seen it go to float for no good reason several times. I had nightmares about that one.
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Wardiker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2009
- Messages
- 101
- Location
- British Columbia
- Occupation
- excavator owner, trencher owner
NEVER , EVER, my tractor busted a hydraulic hose once and the bucket fell like a rock, Ill never forget that day.
Buckethead
Senior Member
Depth perception in pictures is tricky, especially at a distance. Is the person actually under the bucket, or behind it? I can't tell.
tonka
Senior Member
No not at all...
I had a JD 200clc boom bust in 1/2 when 2 laborers were close by, spraying them with hot hyd fluid... that was not a fun day....
Also i don't want tylermckeeto think i am picking on him also...
Deeretime
Senior Member
altho it is not recomended it IMO is not as dangerous as you would think.
The wmb Q/A has a manual lock in it so the bucket will never fall off unless you pull the pin then pull the lock and then pull the switch to move the wedge.
I have never ever ever seen a complete hose failure resulting in a fast drop.
The wmb Q/A has a manual lock in it so the bucket will never fall off unless you pull the pin then pull the lock and then pull the switch to move the wedge.
I have never ever ever seen a complete hose failure resulting in a fast drop.
Deeretime
I think the point we are all trying to make is that it has the potential to be deadly, and just because you haven't seen it happen, many of us here have. It is a very scary sight when it happens, and good operating pracvtices dictate to not put anyone in the position where thay will be hurt or killed on the odd chance of failure.
I knew of an old mechanic who thought like that6. "I have never seen it happen"
In his case it was dozer blades. He had only seen one slowly creep down. He had a habbit of going under unsupported blades to change edges a,d such. One day when he didn't come home, he was found under the blade, smashed into two pieces. There was a blown hose, and apparently it happened while he was under the blade, with the engine off. I haven't seen any other times where it happened, but it only takes once. This man had years of experience, and was complacent, thinking it could never happen.
I have seen boom drops on hoes, fortunately with no one underneath, but it is one thing I will not compromise on.
I think the point we are all trying to make is that it has the potential to be deadly, and just because you haven't seen it happen, many of us here have. It is a very scary sight when it happens, and good operating pracvtices dictate to not put anyone in the position where thay will be hurt or killed on the odd chance of failure.
I knew of an old mechanic who thought like that6. "I have never seen it happen"
In his case it was dozer blades. He had only seen one slowly creep down. He had a habbit of going under unsupported blades to change edges a,d such. One day when he didn't come home, he was found under the blade, smashed into two pieces. There was a blown hose, and apparently it happened while he was under the blade, with the engine off. I haven't seen any other times where it happened, but it only takes once. This man had years of experience, and was complacent, thinking it could never happen.
I have seen boom drops on hoes, fortunately with no one underneath, but it is one thing I will not compromise on.
willie59
Administrator
I think one thing that makes working with an excavator different from say, a dozer, is that they get used as a lifting machine. They even have the capacity charts in the cab. This does not make them a "crane", but operators and workers work around them like they are similar. When in fact, they are not. Cranes have holding valves on the boom cylinders to prevent a failed hose from dropping the boom. Typically, excavators do not. It may be a rare thing for an excavator, or any machine for that matter, to suddenly drop. But I wouldn't want to be the one underneath a "haven't seen that before". Just ask any bug who has encountered windshield...you only get to do it once. 
Deeretime
Senior Member
Yes you all have a verry Valid point and i agree the bucket over head is not the ideal working conditions. But the hook is on the inside of the bucket and we couldnt figure out a better location for it, There is one directly on the hitch but it is too high to reach on the ground.
IMO my drive to work is far more dangerous than what my labouror is doing. Safe work procedures were put into place for that specific task and that is all that boy does all day, He is not to go underneath the bucket unless he has full eyecontact with the oporator aswell as the operator is not to move until the labour has ahold of one end of the pipe ensureing that there will be no contact.
I wouldnt stand under the bucket of a old 245 or a old 892 but i have enough confidince in my people and my equipment for this task to be safe FOR ME and my company, I apreciate your concerns
Evan
Now i want to hear some #'s what is your best day and with what machie
Our best day so far was there at 3m deep and with a 450dlc and 2 labours at 0.035% we were able to do just under 500lm Backfilled and compacted with 4 manholes set to grade oh that includes stripping the rite of way
IMO my drive to work is far more dangerous than what my labouror is doing. Safe work procedures were put into place for that specific task and that is all that boy does all day, He is not to go underneath the bucket unless he has full eyecontact with the oporator aswell as the operator is not to move until the labour has ahold of one end of the pipe ensureing that there will be no contact.
I wouldnt stand under the bucket of a old 245 or a old 892 but i have enough confidince in my people and my equipment for this task to be safe FOR ME and my company, I apreciate your concerns
Evan
Now i want to hear some #'s what is your best day and with what machie
Our best day so far was there at 3m deep and with a 450dlc and 2 labours at 0.035% we were able to do just under 500lm Backfilled and compacted with 4 manholes set to grade oh that includes stripping the rite of way
John C.
Senior Member
I also thought that the person might have been standing between the bucket and the machine and wasn't technically under it.
Most excavators do have holding valves now days and can be used as lifting devices. However that is not a reason to stand under a bucket or suspended load. How many times have you seen junk fall out of the bucket? How far does a rock have to fall to be damaging or even deadly? I've even seen teeth fall off.
Most excavators do have holding valves now days and can be used as lifting devices. However that is not a reason to stand under a bucket or suspended load. How many times have you seen junk fall out of the bucket? How far does a rock have to fall to be damaging or even deadly? I've even seen teeth fall off.
Deeretime
Senior Member
he is standing between the bucket and the kart, and the only thing that the bucket is used for is screened 1" rock so if you have a hh on it dont bother you much lol
95zIV
Senior Member
No one here is picking on anyone, I've been one of the first to defend some of the pictures that have been posted on here. But a safety concern is a safety concern no matter what.
It's not the bucket falling off that scares me, it's the whole boom or the dipper coming down on the guy.
I'm sorry Dt, but what you're saying here is to me completely and utterly wrong. Because you "FEEL" that's it's safe you put your men's life on the line. When that machine swings the pipe down to the guys in the hole do they stand under it? If not then tell me what makes that any different other then extra pieces? I can see that the operator is in the machine, does he flip up his lockout? Does he cross his hands in front of him? From what I detail I can see when I blow up the picture it looks like his hands are still on the controls. Again, I'm sorry but there are just too many things that could happen in a second that make that position untennable in my opinion. Now if you've got a guy dedicated to nothing but connecting cables, how hard is it to drop a the bucket on that machine so you can reach the hitch and connect properly?
Grader4me
Senior Member
I've been reading this with interest. I only have one question...is there anyway that this job can be done without anyone being under the raised boom/bucket? Simple enough question...