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How to dig a ditch fast?

Bumpus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
86
Location
Florida
Occupation
Disability / Retired
sounds like an employee with a really bad attitude that i would rather not have around.

i need speed and the job depends on speed. i am not concerned with a safe trench--i don't put anyone in it. i just want to know the most efficient way to get the dirt out of the hole fast!


You did ask questions wanting answers,
and because you don't like the answer you lash out.

sounds like an employee
with a really bad attitude that i would rather not have around.
I noticed that you said you had not run an excavator very much.

Speed is the cause of most problems in any field of work.
Even in an emergency speed is not the best road to take.

Bid the job right and you won't have to be in a hurry all the time.

And yes we probably would not get along very well
and I probably would not stay on your job,
before I would quit ! ! ! :)

And as my signature says below.
.
 

sultan

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
298
Location
Ontario, Canada
You did ask questions wanting answers,
and because you don't like the answer you lash out.

sounds like an employee
with a really bad attitude that i would rather not have around.


I noticed that you said you had not run an excavator very much.

Speed is the cause of most problems in any field of work.
Even in an emergency speed is not the best road to take.

Bid the job right and you won't have to be in a hurry all the time.

And yes we probably would not get along very well
and I probably would not stay on your job,
before I would quit ! ! ! :)

And as my signature says below.


I agree with you that safety is very important. Speed comes with practice, though learning good technique early on is very valuable. When learning, it's best to use proper technique and the fastest and smoothest digging cycle without rushing. Once you've followed the proper method enough, speed will come naturally.

If all one cares about is speed, one will just work like crazy and miss the little things that can be the difference between life and death. I'm all for efficiency and trying to dig the quickest you can, but not at the expense of safety.

Now as for the best angle of the bucket when digging, point the teeth in the direction the bucket is moving once you've gotten in to the ground.
 

keepnontrucking

New Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
3
Location
cadott, wi
wow you guys are really putting the heat to this guy mellow out good operators are of a competitive nature and they also like people to be in awe of what they can do. Dont lie and say you dont just because your the bosses son does not mean you have the abilitys to operate the equipment you can run it but you might not be able to operate.
 

digger242j

Administrator
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
6,628
Location
Southwestern PA
Occupation
Self employed excavator
Bumpus, I have a problem with at least half of what you said, and since I don't know you, I won't accuse you of it, but guys I've known who espouse the same philosophy you put into words have more often than not been the ones who were trying to avoid working hard.

If your working by the hour why be in a hurry.

Fair enough, if you accept that "hurry" is indeed unsafe, which I do. That doesn't mean you don't try to give the customer/employer the most work that you can safely accomplish in an hour.

Why try to make others look bad by competing on the job against others.

If somebody else looks bad because they're not working as hard as I am, that's their problem, not mine.

If everyone gets in a hurry there will soon be a mistake or an accident because of the effort of trying to out do someone else.

Again, fair enough, but there's a balance to be made between hurry and safety. Slow down too much and you're not getting any safer, but you're not delivering what you're being paid for.

Keep it up and the boss will expect it every day.

Why shouldn't the boss expect your best every day??

Give the effort your paid for, and do the job safely.

That would be 100% effort, for every hour on the clock, right?

Your not there to win the turkey, or the prize behind door # 2

You're there to make the company money. When the day comes for the boss to decide who made the company more money, and who gets laid off, if keeping the job is the prize behind door #2, uh yeah, you are there for that.

Do your job only, and not someone else's ...

Oh, man. One of my pet peeves. Getting the project done is everybody's job. If everybody is giving 100% then there should be no question about who's job any given aspect is. Just do it. If someone else's job isn't getting done, and you're sitting still, you're not giving 100%. The boss gets to worry about whether the other guy is giving 100% or not.

NOW ... GET-ER DONE ! ! !

I sure hope so...
 
Last edited:

rshackleford

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
400
Location
North Dakota
speed:

i need speed on my job. the job was bid competitively with the intention of having high speed installation. i am in a situation where 95% of the time safety is not an issue. I am on the open prairie with no utility conflicts and no men in the trench. the ground guy needs to stay out of the operators way and the operator should be slinging dirt right on the edge of being out of control a trencher is essentially an out of control excavator and that's what i need. for that 5% of the time i need a man in the trench or have a utility to cross i could care less about speed and then safety takes the lead.
 

joispoi

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
1,284
Location
Connecticut
draw a line straight down from the dipper pin and keep your teeth there? would this be the same as keeping your bucket bottom parallel?


No. The teeth (or cutting edge if you're using a gummy) should enter the earth at an angle. Think of the angle on of the blade on a scraper or on a simple wood plane.

The best advice I can give you is to watch someone doing it right and pay close attention to what they're doing. Go on youtube and there are plenty of videos you can watch. One of the members here has a channel under the username letsdig18. Take a look at his videos where he's running the hoe. There are also some volvo instructional videos that you should take a look at.

If you're in a hurry starting off, you're more likely to make a mess and it will cost you more time for every step of the job that follows. Take your time getting set up and digging cleanly and efficiently. Speed will follow. If you start on a Monday, you'll be faster by Friday.

You mention safety not being an issue most of the time. Just keep in mind that most operator accidents occur when getting in and out of the machine and when climbing on top to service it. Something to think about if you're out in the boonies with nobody around.
 

Bumpus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
86
Location
Florida
Occupation
Disability / Retired
.

I'm not bragging but stating a point:

Had many a For-men and ( Owners) Bosses brag on my work.

Trucks, Dozers, Backhoes, Excavaters, Scraper Pans,
Boom Trucks, And Cranes. Owned and Drove 3 Tractor Trailers

In the construction field worked for over 50 different companies.

Been requested by them on other jobs, ahead of others,
because I did the work they required of me, and made them money.

I worked production work, and doing it safely,
and I also did work in dangerous places.

Maybe someone did not slow down and read ALL of what I said
in the beginning and over looked many of my statements.

Missing and not understanding my intent based on the original posts.

Maybe they were just in a Hurry
to give me there opinion. :beatsme :)
.
 

rshackleford

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
400
Location
North Dakota
You mention safety not being an issue most of the time. Just keep in mind that most operator accidents occur when getting in and out of the machine and when climbing on top to service it. Something to think about if you're out in the boonies with nobody around.

i have a man fuel and lube the machines every night. the operator needs to check his oil in the morning, get our for lunch, and then again when he leaves at the end of the day. so hopefully i have eliminated most of the opportunity to get hurt!!

The best advice I can give you is to watch someone doing it right and pay close attention to what they're doing.

i have been watching all my operators and really studying what they are doing. when i get in i feel like i have a pretty good grasp on the spoil and how to make that efficient, but i feel like when i fall back into the trench i am not quite getting my bucket angle right without a little slow down. then i feel like the machine is fighting me until i get that angle right and i struggle with keeping it just right. somewhere in that pull back there is a spot where its like "poof" and the bucket is full. i have some operators who can dig 3000' feet of trench and quit at three and others who struggle all day to get 1600 feet. so i am trying to figure out what the difference is.
 

rshackleford

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
400
Location
North Dakota
In the construction field worked for over 50 different companies.

when i saw that on your resume i would throw it away. maybe there is a reason that you have worked so many different jobs. you have a bad attitude and no one wants to keep you around. you may be skilled but your only interest is yourself. an employee is rewarded when he makes the employer money and he has to give a damn about the company to accomplish that!
 

willie59

Administrator
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
13,361
Location
Knoxville TN
Occupation
Service Manager
i have been watching all my operators and really studying what they are doing. when i get in i feel like i have a pretty good grasp on the spoil and how to make that efficient, but i feel like when i fall back into the trench i am not quite getting my bucket angle right without a little slow down. then i feel like the machine is fighting me until i get that angle right and i struggle with keeping it just right. somewhere in that pull back there is a spot where its like "poof" and the bucket is full. i have some operators who can dig 3000' feet of trench and quit at three and others who struggle all day to get 1600 feet. so i am trying to figure out what the difference is.

This is an interesting question that you have asked. Not being a digger myself, I'm curious as to how the pro diggers work the bucket when digging as you described above and get the fastest "poof", bucket full. :)
 

Mavrickxxx

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Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
74
Location
Queensbury ny
Occupation
Excvation n landscaping
If you are looking for speed on one paticular job and u don't have much time on an hoe. Prolly hire a good operator. If the job depends on speed then there isn't any magical thing that your not doing that is gonna speed things up. Two I saw alot of the other guys have commeted on. Really what kind of advice is that. That's some of the worst advice I've heard in my life. I started my bizness based of terrible and lazy operators. some of best advice I ever got was people always do their best with the information that they have at the time knowledge they have acquired over time and their personal belifs. I took me awhile to beilve that. So basiclly some people get a wall and sit down go around over or under. I've never sat down.
 

rshackleford

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
400
Location
North Dakota
thanks mavrickxxx.

i am not the one digging the ditch. i am trying to study my operators and find out if there as some training our company can provide to improve efficiency which in the end equals speed.

when i dig i can feel that sweet spot that fills the bucket, but can't keep it. it appears that the overwhelming advice here is that it takes experience to perfect this sweet spot and that probably is the best advice. i just don't want to see the company struggle with production or the operator fight against his machine so i am trying to learn all i can.
 

Bumpus

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Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
86
Location
Florida
Occupation
Disability / Retired
.
The best ones to ask these questions on being fast is the operators
who you say do 3000 ft. a day. Don't just watch ask them
personally how they do it.

You could get more than one answer.
 

watglen

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
1,314
Location
Dunnville, Ontario, Canada
Occupation
Farmer, drainage and excavating contractor, Farm d
I want to get back to the topic at hand, forgive me.

I also wonder how best to dig, save fuel, time, wear, while moving the most dirt possible.

I watched letsdig18 on youtube, he seems to have it figured out.

A couple things he doesn't do, that i find myself doing often. He doesn't plunge the bucket into the material. Rather he lets the teeth do the work, filling the bucket as he proceeds through the pile. He uses the entire crowd distance to fill the bucket, and used the crowd to fill the bucket. This is opposed to plunging the bucket and filling by curling.

Also, using the teeth to do the work ensures system pressures are kept low. He never stalls, or comes close to stalling the hydraulic system. You can really be gentle, yet fast, by focusing on avoiding high system pressure...ie. forcing the engine to work to create massive pressures.

I think an analogy is in order here. Imagine a pull pan scraper. I've never seen one myself, but its easy to imagine how they work. You travel a long way with the blade barely in the earth, and it fills itself nice and easy. But if you plunge it into the earth too deep, you stall the tractor, resulting in wasted energy, higher wear, lost time and so on.

Lastly, another thing he does i simple cannot do, is he leaves the bucket curled out after dumping. The lesson here is focusing on directing the oil to the circuit you want to use. Personally, i am running all the circuits all the time. Returning to the pile i tend to boom up, crowd, curl in, and swing simultaneously. But when i get to the pile, i have to undo it all by curling out, booming down and extending, wasting precious time. So my focus tends to be on oil flow, and where i want to use it. I get more done by thinking about what my hands are doing, and what i am telling the machine to do. I think that problem is specific to me. But i do get more done by really focusing on not wasting oil flow on unnecessary motion.

Anyway, that's my two cents, and i have a long way to go before fast and efficient is natural for me.

ps: I have always thought a really neat training tool would be a pressure gauge in the cab showing peak working pressures. It would give a perfect indication of what you are doing to the machine.
 

Mavrickxxx

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
74
Location
Queensbury ny
Occupation
Excvation n landscaping
I didn't see that u weren't digging until I already posted. If u are observing and still can't tell why some r getting half the production ask the guy getting 3000 ft a day if they can see each other he will know. Might not be the machine or operators capbilty's could be a much smaller problem a cell phone. All things being the same half amount of production is defintly not right.
 

rshackleford

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
400
Location
North Dakota
good point maverickxxx you can get footage spending the day on the phone!

thanks watglen. agree with what you are saying. a pressure gauge would be a pretty good training tool. if only i could be built into a heads up display!

when i get in that machine i beat myself up every stroke that i feel is wasted. maybe its that drive to make sure not a movement is wasted that is missing in my slow operators?
 

Mavrickxxx

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Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
74
Location
Queensbury ny
Occupation
Excvation n landscaping
You could try paying the guys the same amount as guy getting 3000 ft. They might be only wrking for what they r getting paid for
 

Bumpus

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Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
86
Location
Florida
Occupation
Disability / Retired
.
Some machines have built in pressure switches which can change operations of pressure by the flip of a switch.

One setting will make the machine more powerful but move slower for heavy lifting like laying heavy concrete pipe.

Another setting will make it faster but not as much power on the cylinders.

An Operator can set his or her own desire of operation usually with 3 or 4 different settings with a switch of a button.
.
 

rshackleford

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
400
Location
North Dakota
You could try paying the guys the same amount as guy getting 3000 ft. They might be only wrking for what they r getting paid for

although a very valid point they are all getting paid $39 per hour as this is a davis bacon job. i can't imagine paying anyone more than that!
 
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