• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

How good is a Grove TMS 475 for a beginner

Evans

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
76
Location
Harare Zimbabwe
Thanks,well received ,this will help a lot.The electrician will be coming to check wiring system , lucky we have wiring diagram in the manual book. when i said cylinders not working i was meant to say two hydraulic cylinders that move boom up and down are not responding.hopefully they will do with the electrical wiring in place.
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
The boom cylinders not moving would concern me a little. Those should have nothing at all to do with anything electrical.

When you say they moved it around with the pto on was it empty on hydraulic oil when they did this. It won't hurt anything to move it with the pump engaged unless the pump is running dry. If they ran pump without any oil in it that's no good. Doesn't take long to burn a pump that way.

I'd be looking for someone to cover that one.

Start with the simple stuff though. The boom hoist is controlled by a 4 section valve bank. I think boom up/down 2nd section extend/retract and two other functions pull from the same pump section. If all the functions on that valve bank work other then the boom up and down, it's not the pump. If nothing on that valve bank works it's pump or swivel.
 

Evans

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
76
Location
Harare Zimbabwe
hello,still doing electrical wiring, when we put the pto on we noticed a leak on one of the pump distribution line where it mount on the pump,dropping oil on the floor.suspecting o ring.can that be one of the causes?

To replace O ring ,do i have to drain all the oil. we have located selector valve and all sol valves

when crane arrived it had about 50-60 liters in the hydro oil tank,does that mean anything?
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,322
Location
sw missouri
The o-ring leaking on the front top of the pumps isn't unusual, and won't cause the functions not to work. (mine leaked there too when I first got it). The o-rings get dry/hard after time. I think a little tightening on the flanges stopped my leak. I think you can change them without draining the tank, but I think that may be where your real issues are.

If there was only 50 liters in the hydraulic tank when it came on the trailer, that's only 10 gallons. That's probably not enough oil for the pickup on the pumps (I think mine feed 4-5" up on the side). With that manifold line broken, if they engaged the pumps they ran them dry, probably taking out one of your two pumps (possibly just a sector, but if it got that hot it probably cooked the pump.

The pumps are probably available from Grove, but possibly very expensive from them. Prices from Grove are all over, a cylinder seal kit is $200, but a rotation indicator for the winch is $2000. Here in the states I would check with my hydraulic shop first, to rebuild/ repair, but I don't have a clue what your availability is in Africa.
I don't think the manual gives a tear down of the pumps, but one old service manual of mine has about everything else-engine, trans, rears, crane. If you have troubles with needing part #'s post up what your looking for, some of the tms 475 stuff is identical to the 300's

Good news though- thats a great crane- and if all that's wrong with it is a pump, that's not the end of the world. My tms 300 (just smaller than yours) always amazes me what it will do. It will do everything a new crane will, and is simpler to work on, and is better built also.

good luck
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
Those pumps are about 2k a piece from grove. They're both two section pumps. You can get them aftermarket for 1200. Surprisingly cheap I always thought.

Also almost every part in those pumps is available separately. It's usually cheaper to just buy the pump then try to have it rebuilt.
 
Last edited:

Evans

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
76
Location
Harare Zimbabwe
Hello gentlemen,we did electrical check ups on the crane, now engine starting from both cabs .The outriggers are now working[extending and retracting] except one rear left which did not respond. the boom cylinders still not responding at the moment.

i have noticed that nothing on the crane is responding on idling only when reeving ,is that normal.
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
That makes it sound like you have a pump problem. If only one function was weak I'd say turn the relief valve up. But if nothing responds at idle I'd expect to buy some pumps.
 

Evans

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
76
Location
Harare Zimbabwe
Good day,I have decided to look for new pumps . If anyone knows where I can get aftermarket pumps for a start.please send through details.its unfortunate I have to pump out money before its on the job site.
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
Local guy has a 475. He said he got his pump from http://www.pwrtrain.com.

That crane should have 2 2-section pumps. Surely they don't have the same part number. Or are you just replacing one. Have you tried grove directly.
 

Evans

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
76
Location
Harare Zimbabwe
Greetings, i have managed to inspect pumps on this crane and found one pump cooked up too bad. surprise was the way gears were chipped or damaged as if something went between gears or was it because they went into each others ways when pump collapsed .it was not turning when we took it off.
 

Evans

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
76
Location
Harare Zimbabwe
hello to you all, i have managed to replace damanged pump with a new one. I put new hyd oil nearly 580L in total. everything seems to be working well except the second boom which is only coming out but not retracting .at first it was not doing both then i topped up oil to the top of the tank gauge. it started working coming out but no going back. please help :confused:
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,322
Location
sw missouri
The proper way to check hyd oil level is with all outriggers up, beams retracted, boom in the rest, with all sections retracted. Tank level should then be in the middle of the sight glass. If you have no oil in the retract lines, or the in the other side of the cylinder, it may take the oil a little time to get it filled enough to start retracting, and oil must get to the check valve to open it up. The second sections oil travels from the valve, through all the hose in the hose reel located under the rear of the boom, then to the section. It's a pretty simple system. Follow the lines from the control valve onward. All that system has to be full of oil before it works, and you've had oil level issues.

Also that grove will be boom heavy. If it hasn't seen a lot of maintainence , I wouldn't scope it out flat and try to retract it. Boom it up over at least 60deg. then try to retract it. If the boom is really dry on the bottom of the sections, it won't want to retract.

You can look at it this way. To move the boom section, you need the oil to flow there. Are you getting oil flow to the retract of the second section? Crack lines or feel/ observe for movement in them (oil will make the hoses jump). If no oil, figure out why. If you are getting oil, either the section itself is giving you too much resistance, or you aren't getting enough pressure. I don't think that's likely- there's enough pressure there to extend it. Did you cavitate the new pump? (running with no oil, low oil in the tank will cavitate/ heat up the pumps, ruining them. Don't do that.)

I don't think you've cooked the new pump. The oil pressure that is extending the boom, is the same oil and pressure you use to retract. All you do is throw the lever the other way. Either you haven't held the lever long enough, to purge the air from the hose and cylinder in the retract side of the cylinder, or your boom is just binding up. Boom it up and give it a little time to fill with oil (holding in the retract lever). If you see the boom start to retract, then stop, you probably have oil there, and something else is stopping it. You will need to throttle up to retract. You have to provide enough pressure to release the holding valve, and overcome the drag of the boom.

It's possible your damaged pump has sent steel through the system, and a piece lodged in that holding valve, locking it so it won't release the oil from the bottom of the cylinder, but I doubt it.

I think you've just not got the air out, because you said you had no movement of the second section, then added oil and now have extend, but no retract. Also, don't extend that boom all the way out and flat over the side, only do one section at a time for greasing, it's a little boom heavy to put it all out over the side flat.

Good luck.
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
The outer live boom section runs off the same pump section as the outriggers. If your outriggers work well and lift the crane up fine then you can assume that pump and your main relief at the outriggers are working. Running the boom in takes more hyd pressure then running it out under no load. Check your pressure right at the valve bank.

Not that uncommon on those old girls to have to have the boom dang near straight up to retract that boom section.
 
Top