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How fast for maintenance grading?

Peter Kennedy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
45
Location
australia
Occupation
coal miner
Hey Swampdog
That fella grading a road flat out is definately a cowboy !!
If i owned that machine and caught him doing that the second fastest thing around would be his **** down the road. But still a good comment mate !!
Pete
 
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Northart

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
761
Location
Talkeetna, Alaska
Gov't work

Hello Ovrszd,

So when you get done grading, what do you do ? Still get paid to do something ? Or go home ?

Most municipal,county, state gov't employees are year round employees .

Some are seasonal, just for summer grading or winter snow removal as the case may be.

When active work is done ,most just burn up the clock, to get their day in. Much like police, firemen, etc. Nothing wrong with that, just the way things are. Otherwise nobody would just work part time, if they did not have another income source.

Around here, they call it deferred maintenance, just do nothing, let the people ride rough roads, saving money for some other project or work in the future.

Up here, if you did what you describe, something would be broken shortly. Cutting edges do break from high speed impacts. End bits crack, hydraulic tilt cylinder starts leaking, excessive wear on the wear strips occur. If you do not have the Nitrogen shock accummulators, then the lift cylinders start leaking, windows get cracked, door latches worn out. Etc, etc. Just hard on the blade. We call it abuse.


We have hard packed natural gravels, not screened or crushed for most rural roads. Our roads degrade to become a series of potholes and washboard. Only slow 2nd-3rd gear grading rectifies such conditions. Heavy cutting 1st 2-3 passes and then distributing material back over in repeat 2-3 passes. Water truck is used or wait till a heavy rain occurs, then do grading.

I just don't believe what you high speed roadsters are saying . I've been grading all my adult life , going on 40 years now, hard to believe that also. :)
 

Grader4me

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
1,792
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
Thanks Northart! I was beginning to believe I was on my own with this one :D

On edit..Welcome to the forum Peter Kennedy! I agree with your comments
 
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ovrszd

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
1,523
Location
Missouri
Occupation
Retired Army
speed grading

First let me say, I never take anything said here personally. I never make comments about not believing someone, discounting their ability to operate a machine or acuse them of abuse or misuse of their eguipment. I'm not a judge. I'm just a lowly grader operator with twenty years of experience at gravel road maintenance.

I always enter into discussions on here to share my experiences or to ask questions to broaden my knowledge. I have a full and indepth understanding of variable conditions. What works for me might not work at all for someone else. Just as my roads are rarely all ready to be graded at the same time, too many variables in roadbed type, traffic volume, etc.

I didn't offer my input in this thread to convince anyone to do anything. You can grade in 1st gear, 5th gear or reverse if that's your preference and I'll never criticize you for doing it.

In my neck of the woods it's township form of government. Of the twenty townships in my county there is only one that has a fulltime operator. By that I mean he gets paid so many dollars an hour for so many hours a week whether he cranks the grader or not. One other township pays their operator a fixed salary, so much a month, again regardless of whether he grades or not. The other eighteen townships pay their operators an hourly rate, no benefits, and only pay them when they are being productive.

So, if I trim hours of operation off the time to grade my roads I save my taxpayers money. As I said above, I'm saving them money at the tune of somewhere around $80 for each hour I trim. I don't get in the grader and cruise around looking for something to do. I drive my roads in my personal vehicle on my nickel when I am doing that. Then I go get the grader and have a specific target area to work on.

I don't even like to sit along the road and eat my lunch because I don't want taxpayers thinking I'm on the clock and not being productive. That mentality has served me well. I don't get complaints. My taxpayers wave at me, stop me and talk to me, offer me coffee or a snack in the middle of the night when I'm pushing snow. I'm proud of the service I provide them.

I've never broke a cutting edge, shattered a window, caused cylinders to leak or anything even close to that. I'm not abusive to the machine. I treat it like I bought it. I wash it regularly on my nickel. The inside of the cab is as clean as the inside of my truck or car. When we trade machines our trade-in is ready to go to the next owner without any shop repairs required. No busted lights, mirrors, missing panels, etc. I take pride in that also.

Sorry to go on a rant. Just thought some clarity was in order. I respect everyone on here, especially Northart and Grader4me.

One last comment. I've had people ask me if I grade in high gear?? I say oh God no, can't go anywhere near that fast!!! They'll say well I saw you the other day and you were going 20-30 mph grading?? I always politely enlighten them that it only appears I'm going that fast. We are so used to seeing a grader crawling along at a walk pace and it just looks like it's going 20-30 mph when it's actually going 14 mph.

Now see,,,,,,, I could have simply made that statement as my first post on this thread. But I would have been indicating that the original poster didn't know what he was talking about. But I chose to discuss my grading pattern as an example that maybe the operator actually knew what he was doing. :cool2
 

Northart

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
761
Location
Talkeetna, Alaska
Rant ?

Hello Ovrszd,

Think your reading something into my post that is not there. It's not a personal attack , nor do I feel that obvious others making it personal.

They are saying what they want and I am responding. Discussing, in the way I know. Might be blunt, to the fainthearted . Whoops, is that criticizing ?? LOL :)

Anyhow, just wondered how your paying for the maintenance, as it certainly varies around the country.

I recognize some gov't units, are poverty stricken budgets and others are flush with the $$$ . And it shows in the roads. Goods roads and bad roads.

As for public perceptions of working, geez people got to eat. I see the State guys here at all hours in the coffee shop, knowing they been up all night plowing the roads. They don't feel guilty about eating. :)LOL

Yes, I've seen the evolution of maintenance here. Started out as hourly, to lane miles , to lump sum. Now they want to go gov't salary and owned equipment. Kind of neat to see the varies schemes over the years as they try for the most bang for the $ .

Some plans really get abused , but as gov't gets more sophisticated , so does the contracts. Efficiency of administration improves, levels of service improve, seems everything get s better as time passes.

Equipment abuse, I could write books on that subject. See plenty of that in construction. Anyway , I stuck that in there for other readers , so they would recognize what abuse is !

Anyway , I don't believe the stories about high speed grading. :) LOL Trying to be polite. ;)

PS Sounds like your underpaid. Have a great day.:)
 

ovrszd

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
1,523
Location
Missouri
Occupation
Retired Army
bluntness

Yep Northart, I know all about bluntness!!! Heheheheh.

I was just replying to your comment of "I just don't believe what you high speed roadsters are saying". In Missouri that means you think we are making it up or stretching the truth. :rolleyes:

I know all about government. Mostly Federal level but for the past twenty years also local level. I've been a government employee of some manner since February 09 1971 when Uncle Sam said "We want you".

I am a grader operator because I love it. It damned sure ain't because it pays well. I grew up on a farm and have ran machinery since age 7. It's my sanity in a generally unsane world. I just started carrying a cell phone a year ago. I like the independence and solitude of operating a grader at the level I'm at. I have no desire to operate at the construction level that most on here do. But I sure do learn a lot of tricks from those guys. :)

No offense here Northart, just open minded discussion. :)
 

roadrunner

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
148
Location
Saskatchewan, Canada
Thanks alot OVRSZD, you always take the words right out of my mouth!:)
Now I have nothing to debate with the "old dogs" about anymore.You older fellas know I'm just razzin' yah right?;)
If we didn't it sure would be boring with very few posts on here!(Yes I also respect your opinions Northart and G4Me.:notworthy)
Great conversation guys do we keep going or find something new to chew on?

Hey Peter, have you heard of KID ROCKS song" I want to be a cowboy baby?" I think that is what all those darn VOLVO guys want to be when they are "Speed grading".
Oh ya-------------- I drive a VOLVO to.........:crazy:pointhead
 

danocheese

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2008
Messages
8
Location
SW Minnesota
I think you can speed grade in IOWA. If you needed a rock you would need to order one from Sears. The roads are not that firm and most have a sandy mix of gravel. Just don't mess with the corn.

I have only graded once So this comment and $2.50 will get you a beer at the lcoal saloon.
 

Pete1468

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Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
136
Location
MW Iowa
There are some big differences in blading. One is what kind of material you have to work with and another is if you run carbide blades or not, and probably another one would be speed. I ran carbides just as long as I could, until it froze. If you haven't run a set of carbides it's hard to describe how they feel, you can do some different things with them that you wouldn't think about with normal blades. They don't work very well at all for sod or any dirt work. They don't cut, they almost push some of the material down. The cutting edge is so thick it doesn't cut like most poeple think a normal blade will, you have to put down pressure on the blade to get them to cut.
The best gravel that I got to work with was all inch minus crushed concrete, that will get smaller and smaller all summer long. Road gravel is getting very hard to find, most is basically sand with some little pebbles as rock.
Speed to me is just another tool to use with the machine. It was not used every time I bladed but is nice when needed. There are deffinately times when you have to go 3-4 mph, most of the time I ran 5-6 mph and so did all of the other operators.
To those that say you can't run a blade that fast, how fast do you push snow off a road? Do you run a wing and a blade at the same time when pushing snow?
 

Grader4me

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
1,792
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
To those that say you can't run a blade that fast, how fast do you push snow off a road? Do you run a wing and a blade at the same time when pushing snow?

Come on for gods sake. I can't believe that I'm even responding to this statement. Don't you even know the difference between plowing snow and grading a road???

Being as polite as I can possiblly be..give your head a shake..
 
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Pete1468

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Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
136
Location
MW Iowa
If you can push snow with any speed at all you're half way there. You can start to feel any sort of a bounce while pushing snow you know to get out of it right away. Try and think of a 6 inch snow that's wet and heavy when the ground isn't frozen and muddy.
 

Grader4me

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Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
1,792
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
Looks like we are still going on with the great debate:woohoo!

Hummmm...no thanks, I'll bow out. Now I'm being told how to properly plow snow..Me thinks that I'll get into a discussion that makes sense, after all I've only plowed snow for 30 years and now I train people how to plow snow.I am typing this on a computor at a motel because we are providing a One Person Plow training course this week. So Gee whiz what would I know about plowing snow??:beatsme
All said though, I think that I might be "half way there" LOL
 

LowBoy

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Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
1,149
Location
Southern Vt. on the Mass./NH borders
Occupation
Owner, Iron Mountain Iron & Equipment (Transport)
Hummmm...no thanks, I'll bow out. Now I'm being told how to properly plow snow..Me thinks that I'll get into a discussion that makes sense, after all I've only plowed snow for 30 years and now I train people how to plow snow.I am typing this on a computor at a motel because we are providing a One Person Plow training course this week. So Gee whiz what would I know about plowing snow??:beatsme
All said though, I think that I might be "half way there" LOL


Come talk to us in 2039 when you get some more seat time, then maybe we'll listen to your suggestions...:stirthepot:professor:lmao
 

LowBoy

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
1,149
Location
Southern Vt. on the Mass./NH borders
Occupation
Owner, Iron Mountain Iron & Equipment (Transport)
I think you can speed grade in IOWA. If you needed a rock you would need to order one from Sears. The roads are not that firm and most have a sandy mix of gravel. Just don't mess with the corn.

I have only graded once So this comment and $2.50 will get you a beer at the lcoal saloon.[/QUOTE
]








I don't care who ya are, that's pretty dern funny right thar...:bouncegri
 

ovrszd

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
1,523
Location
Missouri
Occupation
Retired Army
speed grading

Wow Grader4Me, you are usually pretty calm in these discussions but this one has really gotten under your skin. Kinda funny when you consider that you were one of the first to post comments about the integrity of operators that go any faster than fourth gear.

When one operator posted a comment about what gear he sometimes finished in you chastized him and then asked how many forward gears a 140H has.

When one operator posted comments about pushing snow you accused him of saying you don't know how to push snow. I reread the posts several times and never found that. I think Pete used the snow reference to make the point that an operator can in fact control a machine in a gear faster than a walk. For me, 90% of the time, I push snow in 6th gear. Since you might not know how many gears my machine has I'll clarify, that's 14mph.

As I said earlier in this thread, I respect you and Northart as experienced operators that have a lot to offer any discussion. But sometimes I think the older operators tend to get set in their ways and respond a little quickly to styles they don't agree with.

No one here is trying to tell you or anyone else that they don't know how to operate a grader. I think everyone is just offering discussion and personal experiences and opinions. There's a huge amount of variables involved in this discussion since we have operators thousands of miles apart.

For example Grader4Me, if I graded my roads in 2nd and 3rd gears, sometimes getting into 4th gear, people would think there was something wrong with me. I'm not even sure what speed 2nd gear is since the only time I use it is to cut and push heavy loads. Actually with variable power JD machines they will push as much in 3rd as they do in 2nd. But I digress.

Lastly, for clarity, I'm 57 years old. But I don't consider myself an old operator. I also don't consider myself a young pup as some have been called in this discussion either. I consider myself a considerate operator that's alway open to new ideas. I always learn something here, sometimes it's more to do with individual personalities than with operator expertise. :notworthy
 

Grader4me

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
1,792
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
Wow Grader4Me, you are usually pretty calm in these discussions but this one has really gotten under your skin. Kinda funny when you consider that you were one of the first to post comments about the integrity of operators that go any faster than fourth gear

Most times I end my posts with a wise crack up but there are times I do get riled a little. I get riled when someone tells me to give this or that a try. Be open minded etc. So who's integrity is really being questioned? You have to understand I know what works and what doesn't as I've had many years of practice. The original post was a guy grading a road at 20 to 30 miles per hour. Again this is what I based my "high speed grading" on.

When one operator posted a comment about what gear he sometimes finished in you chastized him and then asked how many forward gears a 140H has

In the 140 H is it an 8 forward? So how fast was you going?

This was my quote..So this was insulting? I just asked a simple question

Since you might not know how many gears my machine has I'll clarify, that's 14mph.

Now who's being rude

Anyway, I'll be a man and apologize to anyone that I've insulted
 

ovrszd

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
1,523
Location
Missouri
Occupation
Retired Army
speed

So can we all just agree that it makes no damned difference how fast you prefer to grade or how fast I prefer to grade as long as we are creating a good end result without destroying the machine?? :drinkup
 

curly

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
220
Location
Sioux Falls,SD
Occupation
loader operator
So can we all just agree that it makes no damned difference how fast you prefer to grade or how fast I prefer to grade as long as we are creating a good end result without destroying the machine?? :drinkup


Sure we can. Just because you grade too fast is no reason to get upset.:drinkup


I think you can speed grade in IOWA. If you needed a rock you would need to order one from Sears. The roads are not that firm and most have a sandy mix of gravel. Just don't mess with the corn.

I have only graded once So this comment and $2.50 will get you a beer at the lcoal saloon.

You ever drive I think it's buchanan blvd out by Inwood IA? One side at about a 15% slope and the other side of the crown at about 2% slope, switching places on occasion!
 
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