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Genie S60

Discussion in 'Other Construction/Demolition Equipment' started by M1687, Dec 22, 2011.

  1. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

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  2. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

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  3. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

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  4. M1687

    M1687 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the information. I like the Diehard battery you put in your diagram. :)
    I'll let you know as soon as I get a chance to work on this again.
     
  5. M1687

    M1687 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Voodoo,
    Here's a short video of my key switch issue. Is this normal?
    If I start the engine in platform mode and try to switch over to the base it will shut off.

    Hopefully the video will post correctly.
    http://youtu.be/FI5NU4BYhjY
     
  6. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

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    nice video..engine sounds great!
    in the video, it was in ground controls position, you then switched to off. would it eventually shut off in that off position or will it stay running?

    You then switched it from off to platform controls and it kept running, and when switched back to off, it finally did shut off. Would it have shut off eventually if you would have kept it in the platform position?

    More importantly,
    When you turned the switch from platform to the off position and it stopped, if you would have then turned the switch to ground controls, would the engine start if you tried to start it?
     
  7. M1687

    M1687 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't keep the key in the off position long enough to see. I remember on a couple of occassions I had the key in the off position and was hitting the e-stop and it seemed like there was a delay and it eventually turned off.
    You coached me on what to look for on the e-stop problem. Lately, I've been all talk and no action.
    I did switch the two relays in the panel and saw no change with the key issue. I was just wondering if my key issue was normal with this post.

    The answer to your second question. The engine would stay running if I switched it from ground controls to platform and left it in platform mode. Another interesting note is that if the key is in the off position, then none of the controls would work (thats a good thing I hope).

    The answer to your third question, I'll have to try out to be certain. I believe it will start. One other thing I noticed too is that when the key is in the grounds position and I'm cranking a cold engine and lets say it starts and runs for a few seconds I have to switch the key to off and then back on in order for it to crank again.
    Another note is that the key switch works with or without the key. So there may be something going on in there?

    Here's a pic of the two relays I switched. They are the two black ones in the upper and lower left corners. I believe you said they are considered PR1 and TR1.
    S60 Panel.jpg
     
  8. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

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    Those are TR1 and TR2
    Time Delay Relays
    TR1 is a Traction Delay Relay
    TR2 is a Restart Delay Relay
     
  9. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    It takes a moment for the engine to die whether you turn off ignition or if you hit E-stop button. Engine is shut down by anti-diesel solenoid on carb, takes a moment to run out of gas in the carb main jet.


    On Edit, I viewed the wiring schematic again, seems I was incomplete describing this, Anti-diesel solenoid is controlled by fuel (gas/lp) switch. E stops turn off fuel relay (CR4). This breaks the current going through the fuel select switch to anti-diesel solenoid which stops fuel flow through carb and kills engine.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2012
  10. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

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    *This is normal operation.
    CR1, CR2, CR3, PR5, and PR1 make a latching circuit that provides an anti-restart circuit that is active until the power is cycled when the ground returns from the oil pressure sending unit (oil pressure light lights).

    edit: oil light lights
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2012
  11. M1687

    M1687 Well-Known Member

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    All,
    I tested to see if I had voltage at the anti diesel solenoid which is at the base of the carburetor. What was interesting is that there's constant power to this solenoid. When I hit the e-stop on the ground controls the power cuts out tot he solenoid but the engine doesn't turn off. Same thing if its in platform mode. I also noticed that if either e-stop was pressed, the main key switch wouldn't not shut off the engine too. So I'm assuming this is normal? Also, I'm assuming I need a new solenoid?
     
  12. VoodooMojo

    VoodooMojo Senior Member

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    will the engine eventually die after the power is removed from the shut-off solenoid?
    If yes, then the shut-off solenoid is probably ok.
    This might be a result of the accelerator thing I mentioned a few responses back.

    If the engine will not eventually shut down when the power is removed from the shut-off solenoid, then yes, the solenoid will likely need replacing.

    I would remove the wire at the shut-off valve to remove the possibility there might be something else in a circuit causing this issue.
     
  13. M1687

    M1687 Well-Known Member

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    S60

    I'll give it another try as far as the time involved to actually shut it off. I would say that I had the e-stop(s) engaged for about 10 seconds with out any results.
    I remember the issue you mentioned about the engine running on too. Based on the information I found on the oil filter, this machine has only seen 200 hours since 2003. So the carb/solenoid may be gummed up etc.

    Hopefully I'll get some more time on Sunday to work on this. I'll let you know. Thanks again.
     
  14. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    The thing I see so often now days is problems related to the alcohol gas we now use, wreaks havoc on carburetors. If you allow alcohol gas to sit in a carb for extended periods, it doesn't make a varnish like old gas did, rather a white residue, possibly the sugar in the alcohol. Anyway, this makes the plunger in the anti diesel solenoid stick when it's pulled in (run position). When you remove power from solenoid, whether by turn off ignition or by removing wire to test, plunger should release and block fuel flow, engine should run only for a few moments, but so ofter the plunger is stuck from gas residue.
     
  15. M1687

    M1687 Well-Known Member

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    After another long hiatus away from the S-60, I found some time to work on my machine today. I believe I resolved all of my start/stop/estop issues. Instead of just ordering a new anti diesel solenoid, I decided to remove the old one first.

    When I pulled it out and examined it, there was a little debris in the area where the plunger and the outer body meet. It was also stuck in one position. So I simply pressed the viton tipped plunger back and forth a few times and sprayed it with some carburetor cleaner and reinstalled it. I started the machine back up and let it run for a minute then I pressed the estop and it turned right off instantly. I started the machine in platform mode and tried the estop there also with success too. I also have the key on/off switch working. It's amazing that the engineers that designed this relied on shutting the gas off vs. shutting off the electricity in order to turn the machine off etc.

    Willie I didn't see much of any white residue so I can't say that the 10% ethanol fuel was the #1 reason, but I'm certain it didn't help. This valve may have stuck simply because of non use etc?

    Next on the list is the governor/actuator. Voodoo, I printed out the manuals and actuator test you gave me. I'm sure I might have some questions when I get into it.

    After the governor, I will service the hydraulics. So if anyone has any input, I would appreciate it. I noticed the filters near the resorvoir haven't been changed in a while.

    Thanks,
    Jason
     
  16. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    The reason they are designed to shut fuel off to kill engine as opposed to turning off ignition power is because idle speed is higher than typically found on engines, that tends to make an engine diesel and keep running when ignition is shut off. Anti-diesel solenoid solves that problem.

    Yep, that's why that solenoid stuck, I'm convinced it's the alcohol gas and sitting dormant for extended periods. I'm seeing this stuff way more often now than when we simply used unleaded gas.
     
  17. raistlin

    raistlin Member

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    M1687, hey I sometimes work on a Genie Z-60/34 just like that. If you ever need someone to take a picture of a part or "chinese blueprint" something I could help.
     
  18. M1687

    M1687 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks a lot raistlin. I basically have two more significant repairs on this machine before I can start using it. One if the governor/actuator and also retracting cable for the boom. Still lots of fun left with those. I also want to service the hydraulic system too.
     
  19. raistlin

    raistlin Member

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    boy! that boom rigging is a big job. Hopefully you can get a helper a decent height hoist and a couple of small wenches/comealongs to get it back together.
     
  20. RSIGuy

    RSIGuy Well-Known Member

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    Hello Everyone, I'm new to this thread but have been on the 40F forum for years. I have a S-60 2005 and have a problem my service guys can't seem to help with:
    When I start it from the basket it will start about 6 out of ten times and operate normally but when it doesn’t I can recycle the stop button a few times and it starts but sometimes when it starts it won’t let me engage any of the functions when I depress the foot switch. I’ve tried working the starter switch and foot pedal when it wouldn’t start and nothing works until I recycle the stop button however it may be a coincidence. If it just wouldn’t start that would be easy but the fact it then starts then sometimes won’t function has me perplexed. I have opened every connection cleaned them and put a little dielectric grease on each including the foot switch but no change? I'm wondering if the foot switch which seems to work freely is internally hanging up or it's something completely different?

    Any help would be appreciated!