1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Fun with dry sleeves!

Discussion in 'Agricultural Equipment' started by wrwtexan, Jul 4, 2017.

  1. wrwtexan

    wrwtexan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    457
    Occupation:
    Indy Farm Wrench, heavy land clearing, rancher
    Location:
    Cooper, Texas
    First my soapbox rant... I've never liked dry sleeves and removing them. Nearly all of the farm tractors I work on have wet sleeves (heavy bar and a few wacks on the bottom) or are bore in block (Ford only). I am not one to turn a good repeat customer away over a particular machine design, but I hate to see a &%#$ Perkins come in needing a inframe or full overhaul with sleeves. What their bloody affinity was (up until fairly late) with those outdated dry sleeves was I don't understand. To say that they are something that can be removed easily with limited tooling as I have been told before... is laughable. I've tried chipping them out, welding beads up and down (real fun keeping the crank clean on an inframe) which usually burns through in places and spots the block bores, and pulling them with a plate all with less than satisfactory results.
    For the old salts on here or those poor souls having to deal with Perkins on a regular basis, what has been a good way to remove a set of dry sleeves? Installation isn't too bad a problem (lube and a driving plate) amidst their forest of studs, but the removal can be a nightmare.
     
  2. 92U 3406

    92U 3406 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    217
    Occupation:
    Field Service Tech
    Location:
    Alberta
    I've never been unfortunate enough to overhaul something with dry sleeves. I did witness a guy beating the living #### out of them with a hammer and chisel to get them out of a small Isuzu. It worked but wasn't super pretty.
     
  3. lantraxco

    lantraxco Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    6,630
    Occupation:
    Owner, Lanway Tractor Company
    Location:
    Coos Bay, OR, USA
    No welding, but do use a small welding tip on the acetylene torch, three or four lines the length of the liner from bottom to top get to red and let cool, still won't slip out but should loosen them sufficiently... Best way if you have a boring bar just bore a few thousandths at a time, when thin enough they fold like tin foil.
     
    sandy likes this.
  4. wrwtexan

    wrwtexan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    457
    Occupation:
    Indy Farm Wrench, heavy land clearing, rancher
    Location:
    Cooper, Texas
    Haven't thought about a torch. What about having a pump up spray bottle handy and hose it down with cold water after heating for a shock effect on the cast iron sleeve? Would I risk block damage? I don't have a boring bar so that is out. My I&T flat rate manual calls for 2 hours for 4 cylinder removal but I call BS on that by the book.
    A slant pointed round chisel (aligning bar) will get them but there is a good chance of gouging the bore.
     
  5. lantraxco

    lantraxco Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    6,630
    Occupation:
    Owner, Lanway Tractor Company
    Location:
    Coos Bay, OR, USA
    I doubt you would damage the block cooling them that way, the liners are thick enough. You'll need a boring machine somewhere along the line, the perky liners are semi-finished which means they have to be finish bored after installation. Too many egg shaped or out of tolerance bores when they tried to install them finished to size off the shelf. YMMV, that was the procedure when I had hair.
     
  6. repowerguy

    repowerguy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    457
    Occupation:
    mixer truck mechanic
    Location:
    United States southern Ohio
    Lan, I seem to remember two styles of liners. One was a bore to finish after install and the other had a rim that fit into a recess in the block. The latter was a ag thing mostly I believe. I rebuilt one once and had the block counterbored for the rimmed sleeves which are pre-finished.
    I have a friend that pushes Mack liners out with a plate of steel he had machined with a step and uses a porta power pushing on the floor to take them out.
    Somewhere I have a plate made to do the same thing on a 4.236 Perkins. I usually put the block in the press with the crank out and push it out that way. The paving equipment I used to work on wasn't inframe friendly so it was usually done on a engine stand.
     
  7. wrwtexan

    wrwtexan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    457
    Occupation:
    Indy Farm Wrench, heavy land clearing, rancher
    Location:
    Cooper, Texas
    The engines I have deal with have the finished sleeves with the rim like a wet sleeve. Slide a new one in and done. Regarding the pusher plate, I had one made for an IH D407 but the sleeves were a bit thicker and came out without much of a problem unlike the paper thin ones Perkins uses. They will sometimes split at the bottom below the block bore before they start moving.
    Going to try the torch and water this morning.
    Thanks!
     
  8. lantraxco

    lantraxco Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    6,630
    Occupation:
    Owner, Lanway Tractor Company
    Location:
    Coos Bay, OR, USA
    Never too old to learn something new! LOL.
     
  9. wrwtexan

    wrwtexan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    457
    Occupation:
    Indy Farm Wrench, heavy land clearing, rancher
    Location:
    Cooper, Texas
    Definitely not! I tried both of my cutting torches and they are both too big to fit in the bore (small 203 with 3.5" bore) so I'll try one of my big brazing tips later. Will update the post for anyone else interested or faced with the same problem.
     
  10. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    4,219
    Occupation:
    Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
    Location:
    Central New York, USA
    Never had to mess with thin ones in a Perk, well I did work on one once but when I saw the liners were only semi-finished and this was an out of frame job due to major water setting in engine and the place I was getting the parts from was our local machine shop I just stripped the block and gave it to Brian to worry about.

    When I said water setting in engine that is putting it mild. Had to pull the head and use air hammer on pistons to break them free! The worst part was I had to be able to turn the engine over almost all the way to get access to the bolts for the flex plate that coupled the gen to the engine.

    The 6 cylinder Macks were not too bad we had a tool that we could mount a 17.5 OTC Hydraulic T-bar on top of and a OTC liner pulling plate for the bottom. Only problem with that is to work in frame on the trucks we had the legs on the tool we made had to be a couple inches too short to pull the liners all the way. Most would come out easy after they were most of the way out. Once in awhile on a tight one we would resort a few smacks with a 4 LB hammer to remove the top part of the line to let the bottom come out with the hydraulics!
     
  11. sled dog

    sled dog Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2014
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Hartdford City, In.
    I took 'em out of a 6-354 perkins with a 6 lb and a driver machined to fit. Bare block on a stand. Going back 15 seconds in liquid nitrogen and they fell in. If I wouldn't have had a hold of them with pliers they would have fell right on thru. 20 seconds in the warm block and presto, there ya go.
     
  12. wrwtexan

    wrwtexan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    457
    Occupation:
    Indy Farm Wrench, heavy land clearing, rancher
    Location:
    Cooper, Texas
    I always freeze mine overnight and lube the block before install. They'll go most of the way down and then slow down. An arbor press plate and a few quick whacks and they seat.
    I know having the crank out would make things MUCH easier but with good bearings and too much going on, I don't want to do a full teardown. Call me lazy:rolleyes:.
     
  13. oarwhat

    oarwhat Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Messages:
    395
    Location:
    buffalo,n.y.
    I've removed Mack liners with dry ice. Made a half ass puller with two steel plates and all thread. Tightened until I had pressure then added dry ice and bing they started moving. These aren't those V-8 Perkins are they?
     
  14. wrwtexan

    wrwtexan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    457
    Occupation:
    Indy Farm Wrench, heavy land clearing, rancher
    Location:
    Cooper, Texas
    Oarwhat; no, inline 4's. Massey Ferguson 165 at the moment. I would probably turn down a V8 pukeins job...
     
  15. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,538
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    I always used a welder, hung the ground on the lower lip of the sleeve and ran a quick LIGHT bead at low amps with a crap rod as 6013, damn near to fall out sometimes. Have used the dry ice trick and on the Bulldogs used a sleeve draw press to pressure up then rap the low lip with a block and hammer also come right out, the presses are easy to manufacture from basic large dia. high schedule pipe and a few odds/ends then a shop 10-20 ton hydraulic jack. Going back in same context as above, I placed my replacements in a deep freezer overnight then was quick to get in place and set with a standard sleeve driver head/hammer. Detroit 71's we jacked out across the intake ports with the pistons using a sleeve tool(spring loaded handle insert) then finish pull with rod/piston and sleeve as assembly.
     
  16. wrwtexan

    wrwtexan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    457
    Occupation:
    Indy Farm Wrench, heavy land clearing, rancher
    Location:
    Cooper, Texas
    Using a cutting torch, spray bottle and an old piston, I easily knocked all 4 sleeves out in half an hour. Using the torch, I heated a 2 opposite vertical lines in the sleeves and quickly cooled them several times, dropped an old piston to the bottom, welded a few spots right above it, and easily drove them up and out with a short sledge and driving bar. Thanks to all for the advice. Perkins sleeves won't be the problem to remove that they had been anymore!
     
    JPV likes this.