DT 466B tapping and knocking

[crane operator]

If its a set back front axle, short nose, where the engine is 1/2 under the firewall and in the dog house, I probably wouldn't try to fix it with it in the truck. I find myself always touching the firewall or rapping on something and dirt and crud from the firewall falls down into the engine. If it was in a big long hood with the engine out and exposed, that's a little different.

I have a big A frame gantry and forklifts etc., so its not too difficult for me to pull a engine. If all you have is a big tree and a come- a long, that would change.

Depending on how much you use the truck, I would consider a used/ junkyard motor. If you need it running, and can pull the motor, you could just have a different motor there and go back together. Used motors are like used trucks, you don't know what you're getting. But I always figure the motor made it to the accident.

I guess one other question, I see you're in california, is it worth spending the $ on a truck that the state isn't going to let you use? Or are you under their mileage restrictions?

 

[Delmer]

I know I'd be looking at a used engine. If you buy the whole vehicle, you can drive it to see how it runs and take a look before it's been pressure washed.

Around here stuff with that engine is rusted out and cheap, I don't know how it is in CA, maybe they're getting forced out by the greenies and you can get a smooth running engine cheap? If it starts easy, runs smooth appropriate for the temp, and hasn't been pressure washed then you can get a good enough guess of what it's like.

 

[oceanobob]

We have a rolling gantry with a trolley and chain fall to remove the engine as well a forklift to place it inside the shop.

The state diesel rule category for this truck is 5000 miles per year through 2019 and then 1000 miles per year thereafter. I believe this is termed "captive attainment"

The cost per mile analysis shows "fix or replace the engine" as economically preferred compared to replacing the truck - that is because if I replace it, I have to get a 2010 engine or newer due to the aforementioned emission rules. These newer "computer trucks" seem to cost a notable amount for repairs.

Am not thinking a big change will occur in the local economy so I figure the occasional use jobs that I now do is the predicted future usage. Rental is really bad as all the contractors (once they got a little busy) placed equipment on long term rental so when one finds a rental it has to be reserved and then adhere to the schedule, whereas owning means we go when we want to go.

Hope these economic choices help shed some light on the plight and thanks for assist with the "pull" or "inframe".

 

[oceanobob]

Recognizing the lack of progress on my part due to other pressing work, and a couple inquiry/discussions with the service bay manager at the international dealer, in mid December he convinced me to let his shop start down the repair road called an inframe...it took a bit of research for parts because the s/n of the truck is so old it won't create a search in the corporate parts system but after some emails to corporate he is convinced he can get OEM parts called a "works kit".

To get the truck ready, we removed all our goodies and tools and we scrupulously cleaned the chassis and engine work area which was embarrassingly terrible due to the head gasket weeping oil for many years. The holidays now past, should be able to more easily coordinate a tow (about 15 miles) to their shop from my yard where I last limped it.
*
Being located in an 'emission state' (name withheld since likely already known) the usage of the truck is limited to 5000 miles per year for 2018 and 2019 and then 1000 miles annually thereafter. A newer truck would not have these mileage limits: during my "time of no progress" I evaluated using my repair funds toward a newer truck that fully meets emissions (later than 2010 engine) but since I want to skip past International's emission sojourn (EGR only w/ no DEF), I have to look all the way to 2015 to get a class 6 or 7 International with a Cummins and other truck manufacturers don't have the dealer support in this area [which I feel is even more important due to the emission equipment computers etc on the newer trucks]. Regardless of mfg, this solution is more $ than avail so I repair.

 

[crane operator]

That's a hard decision to spend that kind of $, with the restrictions that the state will put on the use of the truck. Will you sell it after 2019, or just keep it for limited use?

I'm sure that would be a expensive 1000 miles by the time you figured insurance and plates. Is there a reduction in the registration rates for the limited mileage?

 

[Birken Vogt]

What about just finding a good enough running takeout 466 and dropping it in there instead for those kind of low miles per year?

 

[John C.]

Before putting the unit in a dealer bay I would suggest everything be put in writing as far as costs and what they are allowed to do. It's pretty common to get a $5,000 "estimate" and then getting a $10,000 bill.

 

[DMiller]

Can understand the CA Bullshit rules, buddy of mine can no longer enter CA with his "Antique" "high emissions" 1995 Pete with a Series 60 Detroit. The state put him on notice as of his last entry they would no longer be allowing such heavy pollutant machines inside the state borders.
He swings it by having a in-state hauler bring his loads into AZ where he simply does a drop and pick the empty going into CA. He also does NOT have the CA required aerodynamic devices that are supposed to increase fuel mileages so drastically(more BS). He figures he adds around $500 to each load for the excess expenses but they do get added to his customer invoices.

CA, A great State to ignore and stay out of, I was born there, have little desire to return and see it again.

 

[Hallback]

This.
PenCool is a must in these.

These are good engines, I suspect though from a length of time and minimal use you have a liner eaten thru wall or a failed head/head gasket. You will most likely find a scored piston due to antifreeze intrusion. Best scenario in frame, worst case drag it out and major overhaul. If do get that AMBAC pump gone thru as they were weak after the 100,000 mile mark and lost HP/torque curve.

 

[farmerlund]

So....who keeps track of the miles on a low use vehicle in CA? is it self reporting? pretty sure I could keep that truck under the 1000 miles.

 

[Birken Vogt]

It was self reporting when I did it, that was only when all this was starting, I know I had to install a hub meter on one truck because the odo. was broke.

 

[oceanobob]

Thanks folks for understanding the strange and of course disheartening economics of diesel engines in this state. For now we self log but from a regulatory view when one stands back and sees the great number of newer trucks 'roaming around on the highways' and in the fuel stops etc and also when I pay invoices for hauling (big hourly fees), it is fairly obvious the older trucks are reduced to a smaller and smaller minority. Electronic logs are "in the system" for newer rigs and fleets as we have all learned a bit about the ELD mandates. But to be specific, compliant trucks don't need to log and report miles.
My mileage is low enough because the jobs that I get as a General Contractor involve longer duration at a given site - we aren't hauling a backhoe to two jobs in one day for example. And the dump truck itself is more of a wheelbarrow of convenience (LOL) than it is a production rig. Yes indeed I would like to get a newer truck with the better stopping power air brakes and will seek/thinking/musing of searching for a day cab w a Cummins to convert to my replacement bobtail rig. That idea is on the vista for future plans.
A fellow GC believes in the get a new late model 1 ton diesel and a tandem dual fifth wheel dump - but his capital investment is way over the cost of my bobtail truck and some of his repair bills for new injectors and new dashboard gage panel indicators and DEF tank sensor and EGR valve service strike fear in me (they are usually almost half as much as this inframe is slated to be).
~~~
As to the question about the replacement engine, due to something called Captive Attainment we have been required to report the VIN and the engine s/n and don't believe the engine can be replaced. The shop boss says the mileage at 80,000 miles is so low that is clearly worth fixing via to him simple in-frame process .....
Status we ruthlessly cleaned the engine last weekend, removed all of our tools and goodies.... it was towed to the service bay yesterday; they will pull the pan and determine some issue about bearing sizes and then get the correct parts kit ordered from the factory. Will keep ye posted and lets hope there aren't any hidden curve balls that upset the plan to do this repair....this one follows the nothing ventured nothing gained what does the future hold protocol LOL.

 

[DMiller]

Local rucking company has a lot of newer machines, not keeping up with the Jones's they ARE the Jones and rotate often to keep maintenance overhead down. Having warranty claims and dubious parts sales pricing issues right now, may be dropping a cab line due to that. DOC system on ISX Cummins causing fits, was told a warranty cleaning was needed then as that failed a replacement DOC filter necessary but not warranty $4900 parts, received a bill for another Older truck with similar system and SAME p/n DOC, part billed on that was $1900 HIGHER. Someone is padding bills not expecting to be caught.

I am still NOT convinced the newer machines are all the much 'Better' just more accepted by agencies that do not understand beyond tailpipe emissions.

 

[oceanobob]

Got to see the insides: one piston is sorely abused. All pistons under the crown show no sign of overheating and the combustion side had not too much carbon, the liner seals seem stiff but found none broken or cracked, exterior of the sleeve showed thin layer of tightly bound corrosion and no cavitation/pitting patterns, bearings looked quite good for the 80,000 miles and the 10,000 hours on the engine...the head is at the machine shop and the injectors are at the injection specialist....
How this can happen so suddenly cruising along on a nice day on a fairly level road at 50mph with a trailer and a skip loader is quite a curiosity. Yes I agree the engine used 2 or 3 qts of 50/50 coolant over a year's passing of time. Coolant was always checked with the test strips to assure the additive was OK (green coolant from Carquest and Wix additive). As well, the oil analysis over the years past never showed the presence of coolant (glycol) until the very recent sample taken after "the event".
Cant help but wonder if something else caused the piston to "cook" and the heat and banging from the piston put the finale to those sleeve seal orings?

 

[Wytruckwrench]

Poston cooler plugged up?

 

[DMiller]

That is a typical coolant inspired piston damage experience. Either the sleeve has a pinhole near to a seal ring or the base of the sleeve or the coolant managed to get into a combustion region. The steam from the coolant cooking off removes the oil layer on the cylinder wall. Could have been a slight leak in a intake valve port(crack) where could be sucked in or a head gasket leak on a low pressure side.

 

[oceanobob]

Quite interesting how that coolant in the combustion chamber creates the demise of the piston. No mercy.

 

[AllDodge]

Been a good read, and also need to check my 466 and probably need to add some SCA and change filter. Mine like yours sits most the time

 

[Wytruckwrench]

It sure always cooks one or two about the same time. Out here it has been in the front of the engine more than the rear, from what I can remember. Almost always a pinhole at the bottom seal ring.

 

[DMiller]

More erratic coolant flows at the front, turbulence, potential for cavitation increases, some electrolysis increase as the turbulence drives chemicals away from where needed? Best as memory serves me of the forward two one would be the issue.