Differences between scrapers...

[Countryboy]

Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums Renfroe Grading! :drinkup

 

[Renfroe Grading]

Thank you glad to be here.

 

[637slayer]

I'm kinda surprised scrapers don't have theair own section in HEF? I don't know about the rest of the world but here in Canada everywhere East of the rockys up to Ontario (havnt been past there so dunno) scrapers are the big ticket were there is lots of dirt to move. With the exception of the big mines but they are there as well. And build lots of the roads into them.

i agree scrapers need their own space. if you got dirt to move you need a scraper, in my opinion the most versitile machine cat ever built,i love them.if cat would talk to me about it i would tell them to put the cab off of their new g models with all the controls, and put it on the 637series2E scraper, that would be the best scraer they ever built.

 

[Ray Welsh]

i agree scrapers need their own space. if you got dirt to move you need a scraper, in my opinion the most versitile machine cat ever built,i love them.if cat would talk to me about it i would tell them to put the cab off of their new g models with all the controls, and put it on the 637series2E scraper, that would be the best scraer they ever built.

Hi 637slayer,
I'm a fan of scrapers as well. Back in 1970s-80s I had WABCO 333FT (unreliable due to too much power?) and 252FT (excellent). Both were twin powered elevating scrapers, but could out-perform anything put against them at the time. Cat 623 and 633 were a poor attempt by Cat on elevators. The WABCO secret was the angle of the cutting edge and slope of elevators on both twin and single powered. Also had TS14s and would love to see a pic & specs of new TS14G if anyone has one...........Ray

 

[637slayer]

Hi 637slayer,
I'm a fan of scrapers as well. Back in 1970s-80s I had WABCO 333FT (unreliable due to too much power?) and 252FT (excellent). Both were twin powered elevating scrapers, but could out-perform anything put against them at the time. Cat 623 and 633 were a poor attempt by Cat on elevators. The WABCO secret was the angle of the cutting edge and slope of elevators on both twin and single powered. Also had TS14s and would love to see a pic & specs of new TS14G if anyone has one...........Ray

Wabco? i considered myself pretty knowledgeable on scrapers but have only heard people talk about wabcos ide love to see pics of a twin paddle wheel. sounds like a monster, what is the 333ft? how long it is? how many yards of dirt?

 

[Ray Welsh]

Wabco? i considered myself pretty knowledgeable on scrapers but have only heard people talk about wabcos ide love to see pics of a twin paddle wheel. sounds like a monster, what is the 333ft? how long it is? how many yards of dirt?

WABCO 333FT was indeed the monster of its time. It carried 33yds & had V12 twin turobocharged GMs front & back (12V71t), giving over a thousand HP. It had 6speed allison trannies & could move like a sports-car, loaded or empty. Elevators were electric powered and steering etc was hydraulic.
Earlier single powered models called a "B-pull", had electric steering.
The 252 was a smaller version of the big twin with 8V71t GM front and back. Its earlier single power version was called "c-pull". They also made a baby 11yarder 4-71 GM called "D-pull".

 

[Buckethead]

Ray you said the steering was hydraulic. So it had a steering wheel not a switch like the earlier ones?

 

[Ray Welsh]

Ray you said the steering was hydraulic. So it had a steering wheel not a switch like the earlier ones?

That's right Buckethead. Later wabcos had hydraulic steering with steering wheel and bowl lift and eject. I drove earlier ones that were fully electric & had ropes for all functions. They were great although service/greasing of the pulleys took a while. Electric steering was great with the switch between thumb and forefinger and your left palm draped over the panic-bar. Bowl controls were further along for your right hand which also used to change gears on a fuller crash gearbox. All travel for bowl had limit switches to prevent broken ropes & make them idiot-proof.
Apart from regular greasing of the sheaves, the only thing that needed special attention was setting of the electric contacts for the steering. They had 300V DC which would burn a bad contact & I always used to check and set them myself. Safety first, even in those bad old days........C ya....Ray
The screaming GMs and straight exhaust cats were considered just part of the job back then, and remember this was before earmuffs and sound supressed cabs!! And in case anyone is wondering, my hearing is still perfect.

 

[Construct'O]

That's right Buckethead. Later wabcos had hydraulic steering with steering wheel and bowl lift and eject. I drove earlier ones that were fully electric & had ropes for all functions. They were great although service/greasing of the pulleys took a while. Electric steering was great with the switch between thumb and forefinger and your left palm draped over the panic-bar. Bowl controls were further along for your right hand which also used to change gears on a fuller crash gearbox. All travel for bowl had limit switches to prevent broken ropes & make them idiot-proof.
Apart from regular greasing of the sheaves, the only thing that needed special attention was setting of the electric contacts for the steering. They had 300V DC which would burn a bad contact & I always used to check and set them myself. Safety first, even in those bad old days........C ya....Ray
The screaming GMs and straight exhaust cats were considered just part of the job back then, and remember this was before earmuffs and sound supressed cabs!! And in case anyone is wondering, my hearing is still perfect.

Great! I disagree with great.They were usable and that was about it with the electric steer.Burnt the stator out the first month i ran one.Cost more then machine was worth back then and that was in the late 60's.They scraped it.

Couldn't or wouldn't shift.It had a stop on the clutch when you pushed down it was suppose to stop the transmission so you could get it to shift.Good thing we had short hauls after all that gear grinding it stayed in first.

The Jimmy engine was okay if you could keep their rpm's up.Impossible with straight shift transmission and no converter.

As for the cable stops most didn't work and you could get the lips to wind up backwards,if not careful.Then they wouldn't close.

I was never so glad to see the stator toasts itself.Went to an S18 Eculid it was just a small step over the Wabco.

Finally made it to a Cat 621,i thought i was in heaven.Compared to the other two.:usa

 

[637slayer]

i am glad to hear some one else say "lip" the apron is a term i piked up since i became a miner, so are they slobber bits or router bits. no matter how long i end up mining i will always run with my lip shut and crowd back when im empty. and i call them router bits.

 

[RDG]

Scrapers

Have heard them also called cheek plates. I spent mant years towing cable operated scoops as we called them behind TD15c TD20 & TD25b, scoops being Vickers Onions 8/11 for the TD15 & CAT 435&463g behind the 25s back in NZ, also spent sometime on a IH 444 Payscraper, think it may have been the only one in NZ, a twin engine elevator scraper 22yds cap V800 @310hp in front & DT 466 in rear@185 hp could move the dirt, probably the only scraper Ive seen load it self going up a hill & get a full load with out a push.Thank the lord for hydraulics just ring the hose Dr to fix a hose , no more spraggy wire ropes to thread through the back of a scoop when you break a rope.

 

[Ray Welsh]

Great! I disagree with great.They were usable and that was about it with the electric steer.Burnt the stator out the first month i ran one.Cost more then machine was worth back then and that was in the late 60's.They scraped it.

Couldn't or wouldn't shift.It had a stop on the clutch when you pushed down it was suppose to stop the transmission so you could get it to shift.Good thing we had short hauls after all that gear grinding it stayed in first.

The Jimmy engine was okay if you could keep their rpm's up.Impossible with straight shift transmission and no converter.

As for the cable stops most didn't work and you could get the lips to wind up backwards,if not careful.Then they wouldn't close.

I was never so glad to see the stator toasts itself.Went to an S18 Eculid it was just a small step over the Wabco.

Finally made it to a Cat 621,i thought i was in heaven.Compared to the other two.:usa

The best thing about electric steering was no wobble of the tractor on rough ground as the magnetic brake held it in line.
The up-shift clutch brakes worked OK for me. Up-shifting was best when you were travelling straight and didn't have to alter course for the next 25yds or so to allow time for revs to build up. On earlier rigs without a clutch brake, I just crash-changed the gears without the clutch. Just a matter of matching ground speed to engine revs and feeling your way in. Never a grinding sound after a bit of practise. I have played on quite a few models of trucks and only ever used the clutch for takeoff.
Limit switches were easily repaired/replaced when they were faulty. When I was a youngster I had the good fortune to assist an electrician in a complete rewire of a 222Wabco. He explained it all as he went which left me with a pretty good idea on the breed.

 

[alan627b]

TS14G's, anyone? Here's a link to see them, enjoy!
Be sure to save the site, machinerytrader is a gold mine for pictures.
alan627b
TS14G http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...x=Exact&GUID=A354D68C7C904446BABF85444C1C4328

 

[637slayer]

any one know why they paint terexs green? so they can hide in the weeds when the cats come by. thats my favorite terex joke but with their new colors it dont work anymore.

 

[alan627b]

Might still work up north in the winter though!

 

[alan627b]

Somebody mention Wabco_LeTourneau's? Here's a big old monster I saw At National Hardware in Madera, CA while on vacation 2 years ago. Not sure of the model but it was a big old monster. Enjoy.

 

[Buckethead]

Looks like a LeTourneau B-pull. :drinkup

 

[alan627b]

Buckethead, the server here is not letting me reply to your private message for some reason, please email me instead.
alan627b@hotmail.com

 

[Ray Welsh]

Buckethead, the server here is not letting me reply to your private message for some reason, please email me instead.
alan627b@hotmail.com

Pretty sure that Buckethead got it right. It sure looks like an old B-Pull to me.
Must be pretty old as the inlet manifolds look like cummins 6cyl to me. later ones had GMs. The seat shown in pic is a dead giveaway. They were an air cushion, with no moving parts but were the best of a bad lot in those stiff-neck days

 

[alan627b]

here are some more pics to help you ID what it is..what an electricians nightmare! It did have a steering wheel though..might have to see if i can find my notes to tell for sure.