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Differences between scrapers...
- Thread starter Countryboy
- Start date
alan627b
Senior Member
Found some pics of a 627B, same model as I run, but in much better condition...clean, and painted! What a concept....
More shots of the hitch area.
link to all the pics in the ad.
http://www.jjscheckel.com/listing.cfm?pid=80
641/651/657 sized machines are set up in a similar manner, but have 2 nitrogen cylinders, I assume because of the greater weight of the hitch parts.
The old 3 axle Cat scrapers had something different, a pair of cylinders mounted paraell to the hitch point, which actually lifted the steer axle to shift the weight back onto the drive axle of the tractor. Maybe Surfer Joe can relate how these worked? The only 660 I ever saw, had these removed for reasons unknown. Maybe maintenance headaches?
Thanks, Joe, for the stories.
alan627b
More shots of the hitch area.
link to all the pics in the ad.
http://www.jjscheckel.com/listing.cfm?pid=80
641/651/657 sized machines are set up in a similar manner, but have 2 nitrogen cylinders, I assume because of the greater weight of the hitch parts.
The old 3 axle Cat scrapers had something different, a pair of cylinders mounted paraell to the hitch point, which actually lifted the steer axle to shift the weight back onto the drive axle of the tractor. Maybe Surfer Joe can relate how these worked? The only 660 I ever saw, had these removed for reasons unknown. Maybe maintenance headaches?
Thanks, Joe, for the stories.
alan627b
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alan627b
Senior Member
Couple of 660/666 pics, so you know what I'm talking about....big iron!
The 650 can be bought cheap in Madera, California...I saw this one in person a few years ago, it's in pretty good shape, the bowl seems to stretch forever. I couldn't get it into the back of my Dodge, but I think the Dodge would have fit in the back of it! Maybe I should have driven it home.....
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...4958291&guid=95E012EB70C944F7BBF2FF3750DF1C44
The 650 can be bought cheap in Madera, California...I saw this one in person a few years ago, it's in pretty good shape, the bowl seems to stretch forever. I couldn't get it into the back of my Dodge, but I think the Dodge would have fit in the back of it! Maybe I should have driven it home.....
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...4958291&guid=95E012EB70C944F7BBF2FF3750DF1C44
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alan627b
Senior Member
I knew I'd find it somewhere....Google is amazing.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=mi...&as_miny_is=2007&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=2007
http://www.google.com/patents?id=mi...&as_miny_is=2007&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=2007
BrianHay
Senior Member
Right on Alan thats some great research work. Thanks
Countryboy
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2006
- Messages
- 3,276
- Location
- Georgia
- Occupation
- Load Out Tech. / Heavy Equipment Operator / Locomo
Yeah, thanks for the effort Alan. :drinkup
So the answer is, a cushion hitch contains shocks and struts?
So the answer is, a cushion hitch contains shocks and struts?
alan627b
Senior Member
Mr Science I Ain't...
Amazing what you can do on a rain day...
Not a strut, it's (1) a hydraulic cylinder, and (2) a nitrogen filled accumulator, a gas pressurized tube with a piston, more like a huge gas shock. 1200 or 1400 psi, I think. Check out the link for the parts involved, it's pretty complex. I couldn't find the patent application for the accumulator assembly, and it's not shown in those tech diagrams. Although the scraper pics show it.
Lots of valves, a pump that runs off the transmission, and the load sensing device is a rod, attached to a sensing valve on one end, and a little leaf spring on the other, that senses the load on the hitch and the height also, and adjusts the pressure the pump supplies to the hitch cylinder accordingly.
Not bad for a guy who just runs the things....
Even the seats in some of these things run off the transmission, they have their own little hydraulic system, and a little nitrogen cylinder under the seat that cushions the bumps. I think the newer scrapers did away with this, and just use an air ride.
If you,ve got a ton of time on your hands, check out some of the stuff Cat has patents for over the years...
http://www.google.com/patents?as_dr...=caterpillar+tractor+company&lr=&sa=N&start=0
Lots of pages here...
alan627b
Amazing what you can do on a rain day...
Not a strut, it's (1) a hydraulic cylinder, and (2) a nitrogen filled accumulator, a gas pressurized tube with a piston, more like a huge gas shock. 1200 or 1400 psi, I think. Check out the link for the parts involved, it's pretty complex. I couldn't find the patent application for the accumulator assembly, and it's not shown in those tech diagrams. Although the scraper pics show it.
Lots of valves, a pump that runs off the transmission, and the load sensing device is a rod, attached to a sensing valve on one end, and a little leaf spring on the other, that senses the load on the hitch and the height also, and adjusts the pressure the pump supplies to the hitch cylinder accordingly.
Not bad for a guy who just runs the things....
Even the seats in some of these things run off the transmission, they have their own little hydraulic system, and a little nitrogen cylinder under the seat that cushions the bumps. I think the newer scrapers did away with this, and just use an air ride.
If you,ve got a ton of time on your hands, check out some of the stuff Cat has patents for over the years...
http://www.google.com/patents?as_dr...=caterpillar+tractor+company&lr=&sa=N&start=0
Lots of pages here...
alan627b
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BrianHay
Senior Member
John C.
Senior Member
Here is a close up of the cylinder between the hinges and the other photo is of the accumulators.
They are different than struts in that the gas in the strut is with the oil. The gas pressure raises the machine and the oil dampens the shocks.
These are piston type accumulators. Nitrogen is put in the accumulator with the piston at the bottom to a specified pressure. The area under the piston is common to the bottom of the cylinder. Oil is pumped into the cylinder and accumulator until the linkage hits a neutral point. The gas will compress while the oil will not. You are basically sitting on a gas spring. There is no damping affect in these like there is in a shock absorber.
Hope this helps.
They are different than struts in that the gas in the strut is with the oil. The gas pressure raises the machine and the oil dampens the shocks.
These are piston type accumulators. Nitrogen is put in the accumulator with the piston at the bottom to a specified pressure. The area under the piston is common to the bottom of the cylinder. Oil is pumped into the cylinder and accumulator until the linkage hits a neutral point. The gas will compress while the oil will not. You are basically sitting on a gas spring. There is no damping affect in these like there is in a shock absorber.
Hope this helps.
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Construct'O
Senior Member
Alan we aren't to far from each other.
I ran 660's for Vanbuskirk construction out of Siuox City,Iowa on I29 between Neb. City and Glenwood,Iowa.
The small lakes alone I29 you see was our borrowpits.Vanbuskirk was fairly good size company back then.Don't hear much about the old !!!!! companys i worked for.
The weight transfer on the 660 was like if you was in the mud, you was suppose to be able to raise the front end off the ground, then steer with the brake lever.In the mud the fronts would just slide,you couldn't steer them.
Been jackknifed a few times in the mud<where we shouldn't of had to be ,but doing as the boss said back then.Not a fun ride with four D9"s behind you and jackknifed up against the stop.Thats why the air aircleaners was always bent up on the ones we ran.
Just a memory now tho.Thanks for reminding me of the good old days:drinkup .Denny
Construct'O
Senior Member
Nice picture.Nothing like being the leader of the "pack".Not much fun tho if somethings goes wrong when you in the middle.No where to run!!!!!!! i've seen that before.
Have a good day.Rainy here today also!!!! :usa
Twin powered elevating Scrapers
Hi New to the site and came accross your scraper thread. We actually have 2 Cat 639D's and 2 Wabco 252ft scrapers I can send pics soon. We work in wet conditions and find the extra power at the back wheels essential to travelling out of pits and through suspect ground. The Wabcos actually do a better job of unloading as the floor slides with an eject. On the Cats the Bowl rotates to tip which usually results in wet clay clogging up and up to a 1/4 of the bowl. I actually worked on a 627B 7 years ago in West Ausrtalia that had a set of chains fitted to it which also worked quite well. One of our 639D's is a converted 633 which was done in West Australia. I have heard they only made about 60 of the 639D's and about 50 are here in Australia. If anyone else has info on Twin powered elevating scrapers I would be keen to find out more.
Hi New to the site and came accross your scraper thread. We actually have 2 Cat 639D's and 2 Wabco 252ft scrapers I can send pics soon. We work in wet conditions and find the extra power at the back wheels essential to travelling out of pits and through suspect ground. The Wabcos actually do a better job of unloading as the floor slides with an eject. On the Cats the Bowl rotates to tip which usually results in wet clay clogging up and up to a 1/4 of the bowl. I actually worked on a 627B 7 years ago in West Ausrtalia that had a set of chains fitted to it which also worked quite well. One of our 639D's is a converted 633 which was done in West Australia. I have heard they only made about 60 of the 639D's and about 50 are here in Australia. If anyone else has info on Twin powered elevating scrapers I would be keen to find out more.
Countryboy
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2006
- Messages
- 3,276
- Location
- Georgia
- Occupation
- Load Out Tech. / Heavy Equipment Operator / Locomo
Welcome to HEF Shad! :drinkup
Yes, your pictures oughta be interesting. :thumbsup
Yes, your pictures oughta be interesting. :thumbsup
Shad
Great to have you here at HEF
I woud like to hear more of your 639 stories and also comparing them to the Wabco
One of the bigger local companies here in So California used to have a spread of 639's. They used them on a lot of sandy jobs where the single engine rigs would bog down all the time. I last seen them on a job a little over 10 years ago, and heard that they all got sold. There was a rumor at the time they left the country, so it may be some of them that are now down under.
Hope to hear some more.
Great to have you here at HEF
I woud like to hear more of your 639 stories and also comparing them to the Wabco
One of the bigger local companies here in So California used to have a spread of 639's. They used them on a lot of sandy jobs where the single engine rigs would bog down all the time. I last seen them on a job a little over 10 years ago, and heard that they all got sold. There was a rumor at the time they left the country, so it may be some of them that are now down under.
Hope to hear some more.
iowatreefarmer
Member
Paddle/Elevating Scraper
I'm pretty new to this myself so I'm no expert. I have an IH paddle scraper. It does an excellent job in black dirt but not well at all in clay. I think it is mainly a landscape scraper. I'm building a pond on our ground and finally bought an old Cat 830MB with a 20 yard bowl. Haven't tried it yet but it looks like it will move the world!
I'm pretty new to this myself so I'm no expert. I have an IH paddle scraper. It does an excellent job in black dirt but not well at all in clay. I think it is mainly a landscape scraper. I'm building a pond on our ground and finally bought an old Cat 830MB with a 20 yard bowl. Haven't tried it yet but it looks like it will move the world!
BrianHay
Senior Member
Thanks Construct'O Those guys were a good team to work with. There was no real oficial leader, we were all really good operators. That sure makes a difference on how your day goes eh. I only had it go really wrong when I was in the middle. I was second in a line of 5 of us when the front scraper stopped dead half way through his cut. Took a few seconds for the rest of the train to stop. They jack knifed me and snapped my bail in a heartbeat. Scared the crap outa me lol
Renfroe Grading
Well-Known Member
Great site! I just ran across this site and must say it is great. I need to get some scraper pics for you guys. We recently built a 621 pull scraper in house and are pulling it with a D8N pull tractor. I have a couple 621E's, 631C's, 631D's, 623F, TS-14C, and a 116 fiat.
I recently demoed a new TS14G and it is a great machine. It has a cushion ride utilizing the hoist cylinders. It is powered by a pair of Cummins and is stout.
Beau Renfroe
I recently demoed a new TS14G and it is a great machine. It has a cushion ride utilizing the hoist cylinders. It is powered by a pair of Cummins and is stout.
Beau Renfroe
Construct'O
Senior Member
If you have some picture of the TS14G i would like to see one.The cummins sounds like a good update from the old GM ones.
Do they crowd the dirt out now or are they still trying to use the lift crowd tailgate.What a joke those was!!!!!!:usa
Renfroe Grading
Well-Known Member
no pics. They still use the same lift gate ejector.
My experience on scrapers is not nearly as extensive as these other guys, and is limited to 613 and 621 Cats.
However... I've found that in clean soil conditions, even a 621 can self load to completely full if operated correctly. As a matter of fact, I've self loaded (no push) in clean clay faster than the pan next to me that was being pushed. The difference was the other pan had a rookie operator, and the dozer operator was a rook as well. You can self load these beasts, you just have to take a long shallow cut to do it. Won't happen in rocks though!!!
However... I've found that in clean soil conditions, even a 621 can self load to completely full if operated correctly. As a matter of fact, I've self loaded (no push) in clean clay faster than the pan next to me that was being pushed. The difference was the other pan had a rookie operator, and the dozer operator was a rook as well. You can self load these beasts, you just have to take a long shallow cut to do it. Won't happen in rocks though!!!