Deere 410 clutch/hydraulic problem

[Wino]

Hello everyone,
I've been reading posts on this forum as a nonmember for awhile, figured I should join now that I bought my first piece of equipment. I purchased a John Deere 410 (old model) with known problems, because it's all I could afford. The problems that I know of are, the machine will move in low range but feels like its slipping, it will not move in high range tires pulse, machine sits and slips. The other main issue is when the machine runs awhile the hydraulics start moving slow, if you keep running the front bucket and hoe start creeping down. My first approach was going to be split the machine change the clutch and maybe get in to the reverser clutches. Then move on to the hydraulic issue after thats completed. Does this sound like a sound plan or is this a wrong approach? Forgive me for ignorance I know enough to be dangerous but lack experience. I also intend to change hydraulic filters and purchase a set of gauges. Thank you in advance for any assistance.

 

[AllDodge]

Hello everyone,
I've been reading posts on this forum as a nonmember for awhile, figured I should join now that I bought my first piece of equipment. I purchased a John Deere 410 (old model) with known problems, because it's all I could afford. The problems that I know of are, the machine will move in low range but feels like its slipping, it will not move in high range tires pulse, machine sits and slips. The other main issue is when the machine runs awhile the hydraulics start moving slow, if you keep running the front bucket and hoe start creeping down. My first approach was going to be split the machine change the clutch and maybe get in to the reverser clutches. Then move on to the hydraulic issue after thats completed. Does this sound like a sound plan or is this a wrong approach? Forgive me for ignorance I know enough to be dangerous but lack experience. I also intend to change hydraulic filters and purchase a set of gauges. Thank you in advance for any assistance.

Welcome to the forum, and I'm no Deere guy. It sounds like you picked up one with a whole lot of needs. Transmission, hydraulic pump and seal issues are going to keep you working on it for a while. Hope someone with more knowledge will come in and assist.

 

[Wino]

Thank you for the reply. I figure I'll know a little about machines by the time I'm done getting this one going. Expanding our winery/vineyard intend for this 410 to do a lot of the work. Really don't want to dive in to splitting the hoe unless it's necessary.

 

[Delmer]

Do you have a Deere technical manual? I'm not familiar with that one, but the manual I have is great at explaining the workings of the system. I believe, from reading on here, that the "reverser" as deere calls it may be the same one used on other makes like Case, so if you can figure out what you have, you may find everything you need to know on here.

Since you're buying the gauges, I'd definitely take the readings BEFORE splitting the tractor. When it's cold and working and when it's warmed up and working, and temperature readings at the pump, hydraulic tank, oil cooler, transmission. If you find that the reverser and the hydraulic pump are both toast, I'd say you're better off cutting your losses before putting any time into it.

 

[Wino]

Sounds like solid advise. I have manual for a 310, which I understand is very similar, if not the same systems. I've read about reverser clutches forward and reverse, I've only heard people talk about changing forward clutches not reverse. Not sure if it's difficult to change reverse or they rarely need changed. As far as temps. go, I have a IR thermometer is that sufficient for tank and pump temps. or do I need to measure fluid temp?

 

[Delmer]

I have a IR thermometer is that sufficient for tank and pump temps. or do I need to measure fluid temp?

Good enough for what it's for. You're probably right about the 310 being the same, and you'll know it if you run into a difference.

 

[Wino]

The difficult part is the manual describes a lot of flow tests and hydraulic test equipment I don't have. I'm going to do my best to pressure test what I can and get into the filters and screens. I haven't found any way to tell if the main engine clutch is faulty or, reverser or, it's hydraulic pressure that's making the machine slip. My thought is if I figure something out with hydraulics and it still slips, I'll then go from there. Not sure if the problems are separate or the same.

 

[chroniekon]

I have a 310 that was slipping as you describe in the higher gears. I was able to get it going again by adjusting the clutch pedal linkage.

 

[Wino]

As I work through this i will update findings and progress, in case anyone else has this trouble. Today it's getting washed with hot water pressure washer before I get started. Might make my life a lot easier

 

[Awhelan]

Wino
The 310 and 410 hyd. systems can be totally different depending on the year. Also be sure you have a straight 410 and not 410A,B,C, There are some differences.
If you P.M. me your email addy. I will send you the pdf. copies of the technical, parts and owners manuals for the 410. It cost me a few bucks to get them so I don't normally offer them up.

My advice (having worked countless hours on mine and split it twice) is to get your gauges first and test your pressures. The Hyd. is a common sump system. There is a Trans. pump that supply's the trans and reverser with oil as well as sends oil to the main pump. You can test the pressures of both pumps with two test ports on the side of of the main pump. If the pressures are low there are a few things to check before taking anything apart.

Andy

 

[Wino]

I steamed the machine today, and found while playing around the brake pedals creep down to the floor and, you lose brakes. Let the pedals back up and they creep slowly down again. I'm not sure if this is related but I was under the impression the brakes are part of the main hydraulic system.

 

[OldandWorn]

I steamed the machine today, and found while playing around the brake pedals creep down to the floor and, you lose brakes. Let the pedals back up and they creep slowly down again. I'm not sure if this is related but I was under the impression the brakes are part of the main hydraulic system.

Not related at all to your problem but the brakes do use oil from the hydraulic system.

 

[Scout_1969]

You may have read my post from 2011 about the trans. screen.

But if not, your model may have a screen like mine that is near the hyd/trans filters https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...aulic-Issues-and-Metal-In-Transmission-Screen

Screen removal and flushing would be worth a try.

 

[Wino]

this is what I found, if I'm not mistaken the trans screen is behind one side of this pinched line. If this is the culprit, I would be very happy. If not, I still need to change this. Anyone ever change this line? What did you use so that it doesn't pinch, does it need to come from Deere?

 

[Scout_1969]

You are correct. I changed the hose and Deere wasn't all that expensive, any hose shop should be able to match it up.

There are two bolts holding the horizontal filter base on in slotted holes. The filter was removed but I'm not sure it's necessary.
I removed the bolts and used a wood wedge to hold it back (towards right rear tire), leaving the other lines attached at the top.

Once the base is moved and hose is removed the part on the trans. un-threads.
The screen should wiggle out.

The hose may be a little too long on yours and might be compressing. Mine was not wrinkled as bad, but I just assembled everything minus the hose and measured and the replacement is not as bad as the one that I took off.

Once I removed the screen, I checked the trans. housing with a magnet. After finding debris, I began flushing with diesel, vacumming and using a magnet to clean the trans.

 

[Wino]

I intend to start that process tomorrow, after that, I'm going to start checking pressures. I'm assuming the hydraulic reservoir needs to be drained before the screen is pulled. Did you have any issues using napa hydraulic fluid instead of hygard? I have 5 gallons of hygard but at 75.00 price tag a cheaper option would be nice. Also, how many gallons does the system hold?
Thank you for your help
Wino

 

[Scout_1969]

Yes the trans. reservoir has to be drained and has two drain plugs, front and back. You may just have to remove the front one, but I ended up removing both with my issues. They take an 1-1/4" wrench/socket I think and may be the same size as the threaded part in trans. to remove screen, but I'm not 100% sure on size.

I used TSC's fluid after the initial screen change. After maybe 80 hours, drained trans and rechecked for debris, finding none, changed filters again and used Hygard. No problems with TSC's fluid but I just went with Hygard for what I hope is a long time so the extra cost wasn't too bad in my opinion.

I think I used about 10-12 gallons for the trans drain/filter change each time.

 

[Deon]

I believe you would need to match the Deere specifications because the wet brakes work in the oil you are replacing.

 

[Wino]

Drained the transmission today, and fixed the pinched line. Unfortunately this wasn't the problem. The screen didn't look too bad. This did drop out of the rear plug of the trans. I don't think this is related to my problem but it doesn't look good! Next I'm putting the gauges on it.

 

[Delmer]

Did you fish around with a vacuum or magnet to see what else you could find? Hope you didn't refill it already.

How about some scale on that rivet, like a pic next to a ruler or coin. Somebody will have a pretty good idea where that came from, this will be fun.