Thank you. Lots of good information here. I've really gotten the "message" about the older larger Cats. I saw the one with the cracked head and I thought to myself, "If that's all there is wrong with it - why wasn't it fixed?"
I'm seeing D8Ls and D9Ls in the $60-120,000 range on Machinery Trader. Is there any book that lists the FMV on these used CATS?
Now you mention that the D8L-D9L and even 10's are being scraped. Really? I thought CATS could be refurbished over and over and over? Why do you say they are being "scraped"?
Do you know (or does anyone know) how many average hours an engine, transmission, torque converter, and finals can or should last? When I see ads that say "Only 6000 hours on the engine" - that does not seem like a sweet deal to me but then, I have no idea.
Thank you so much for your comments,
Jim Mitchell
Re: Fair Market Value: Due to the widely varied condition of machines, there is no simple answer. Case in point, a recent auction in CA had six D-10T dozers. All were within a year or two in age, but in condition there was a huge gap. Three were cleaned, painted and had new UC. Three did not, and looked worn. Careful inspection revealed a large discrepency in condition of the first three. One which looked like the lesser visually was the best on close inspection. The best had a transmission failure before it moved a blade of dirt, and the third had a sickly engine, along with so many other issues it was not worth looking at. The sale prices ranged from $350K to $220K for the "clean" ones, and the unpainted, well worn went for $150K.
Buyer beware and make sure someone with a good knowledge of these machines inspects them before laying down hard earned money.
There are lots of potential problems that can hide on a big cat until you put it to work. Part of my education was being involved in purchasing a D-9N dozer many years ago. It was shipped to the job, and found to have many problems. It went to the dealer for $150K in repairs before it could go to work. That said, the same machine is working, 15 years and one more rebuild later, and due to being pre electronics, it is one of the most reliable. I plan on rebuilding it again in a year or so for its third life with me, and at least two prior to me.
As for repairs, you need someone local to do basic repairs and maintenance. The dealer rate is in the ball park of $140 per hour, port to port, or from the time they leave the shop until they return. In addition, they charge mileage as well. 200 miles away and you could have a $2,000 bill before they ever work on the machine.
As for Cats getting scrapped, when they no longer provide an economic benefit to their owner, they get scrapped or sold. Different owners have different levels at which this happens. There are large machines scrapped at 15,000 hrs because of poor care, and ones still running at 100,000 hrs, with good care and several rebuilds.
For the operation you describe, I would look for a D-9N or R, D-8N or R, or possibly a good condition D-8L or D-9L. The L will be hard to find in good enough condition to last for you. The last D-9L engine I was in was $85,000. Go into track frames, equalizer bard, pivot shaft, etc, and the money adds up fast, especially if you have to hire it done.
A properly rebulit Cat engine in a large dozer should see 10,000 hrs even in bad conditions, and 18,000 hrs with excellent care, but who did it? was it done correctly? If it has no documents or warranty, buyer beware. Just becuse it only has 6,000 hrs does not mean it will last more than out the driveway.
You are on the right track by wanting a Cat, as they are the only thing that you can get good parts and servive for once thay are past their prime.
Good luck with your venture.
In my opinion, the only ones that can get by with old large dozers on a small scale are people that are their own mechanic, and quite adept at it.
