D6c cat loss of oil pressure

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Zeigler caterpillar service manager said that the machines fuel pressure and oil pressure are related! !!Mine is a d6c 10k 11 serial number. All I know is what he said and that was that oil pressure loss affects the fuel shutdown, and I am glad that my machine has that feature
Thanks for all the posts, they have been very informative! !

 

[tctractors]

Steve, someone has told you a load of crap, there is NO and again NO shut down feature on the 333C or 3306 engine unless it has a Non OE fitment. these engine protection units that could be bought and fitted need activating on every start up, I have only seen them on D8's and 9's, if the engine speed is on higher than 1/2 speed the Rack pegging control will not work until the speed is reduced to low idle, then the engine will only idle but not shut down with NO oil pressure, hate to say it Steve but you are well outside your comfort zone with your sump pan full of metal issue, you need to firstly look at your front engine oil leak? as that sounds Not Good, then start removing the engine and avoid listening to crap off your Service pal that seems to be not gripped up with old D6's, or better still stop listening to me and waste your $$$$.
tctractors
p.s do you read these post's ??

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Well,if the engine bearings are replaced mains and connecting rods and crankshaft doesn't have noticable damage, what have I got to lose? Rebuilt engine might be less expensive than majoring mine.

 

[RustedHeroes]

Steve,

I would heed the warnings of the very intelligent and straight shooting folk here on this forum. Something caused the engine to shut down and it was not a low oil pressure safety mechanism, new bearings are not going to solve your problem especially if the bearings in it now don't look bad they most certainly did not cause the engine to stall. A little more digging into the issue definitely can't hurt...

Just my humble opinion... you know what they say, they are just like A%$ holes, everyone has one!

Either way I wish you luck with whatever direction you choose to take

 

[DoyleX]

Mr steve,

I run a reputable earthmoving company, own and still run a late 10k. The clowns at the local yellow store say they can fix anything yellow. Problem, everybody is 22yrs old fresh out of lawnmower school. It wont turn out good from my past experiences there with non current iron.

Chain the blade up, push er on a trailer and bring it to a independent real heavy equipment mechanic who makes his living on his reputation.

 

[kshansen]

One more vote on finding someone who actually knows these engines. Personally if the guy does not have grey hair I would be looking somewhere else!

These are simple and tough engines but running even for a short time with no oil will cause all kinds of damage. A quick washing off of an assembled engine will only delay the major failure a few minutes.

Without pictures of the actual damage and broken parts it is hard to make any good educated suggestions. If there is now way to work on it where it sits, I see it's is in Minn. so not the best time of year for working in the field, it may be possible to do some very temporary repairs to get it to run just long enough to raise blade and walk onto a trailer. But that would take someone who knew what they were doing and still would be risky.

If it was mine I would not feel comfortable with anything less than a complete disassembly so every bearing and part could be cleaned and inspected. Also if you do go that route don't try to save money by flushing out the oil cooler!

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

I very much appreciate all of the advice that I have received. All of your posts I have read them all.Almost all of you have said to pull the engine, and have a COMPETENT mechanic overhaul it. At the end of the day, that is what I will do. I still don't know why the engine shutdown right after loss of oil pressure and engine is not locked up. It acted like it was starving for fuel. No one has been able to answer that question.I started it the next day to check out to see if oil was coming up to the disconnected gauge, which it was not, then engine died again. I am scratching my head! !!

 

[Nige]

Steve, your problem (if I can refer to is as that) is that you appear to be "glass half full" kind of guy always wishing/hoping/expecting the best.
Those of us that have been around big yellow iron for 40+ years like Ken, TC & myself are generally "glass half empty" kind of guys because we've learned over the course of all those years that where yellow iron is concerned whatever can go wrong will go wrong, usually in the worst possible place and in the worst possible way. Anything less than that is counted as a win.
In the case of your engine there are so many "what ifs" involved regarding why the oil pump broke (and also the unexplained oil leak that suddenly appeared at the front of the engine) that IMHO the only way to get to the bottom of what happened and to fix it right the first time is to yank the engine and tear it down to the last nut & bolt. Only then can you be sure you dodged every bullet.

As an example of the glass half empty view on equipment I remember on my last job having a stand-in boss for a few months (that was all he lasted) who was an eternal optimist. At one of our morning meetings I was being my usual grumpy self and eventually he exploded - "You really need to have more of a positive attitude" to which I responded "OK, I'm positive it's fcuked. Happy now..?"

 

[D6c10K]

....just thinking. If your oil pump gear bolt was broken, indicating something may have gone though the gears, then it's possible it's done some damage to the rest of the gears driving the cam, fuel pump, and water pump. If so, it may have messed up the fuel pump timing, and if something got up in pump gear it could have damaged the fuel pump shaft.

That might explain it acting like it was running out of fuel.
Who knows what if might have done to the cam shaft and cam timing.
Looking more like your in for a more than a minor fix.

 

[Old Magnet]

Never did see what you got for a crankshaft thrust clearance reading.

 

[kshansen]

....just thinking. If your oil pump gear bolt was broken, indicating something may have gone though the gears, then it's possible it's done some damage to the rest of the gears driving the cam, fuel pump, and water pump. If so, it may have messed up the fuel pump timing, and if something got up in pump gear it could have damaged the fuel pump shaft.

Good point there! And if someone says it would not have started the next morning if the pump timing was off, they have not tried to start a 3306 engine that had the pump timing set 180º out and seen it started right up. Okay it did not sound right but it did start and run. I'll blame that one on Norm as I don't think he's on this forum!

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

All I know is that it started right up the next morning, just didn't run more than 30 seconds. I checked the gear driving the oil pump, looks fine. There are, what looks like timing marks on the gears. Do the gears of oil pump have to do timed?I found a used pump and suction screen for $350.00 They are coming next week.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

I did not find the bolt head. Nothing was laying on the bottom of the pan. You make a good point. I don't see how though, the bolt head would have to be thrust upwards, I guess stranger things have happened!

 

[tctractors]

Steve, I thought you said the "Used Oil Pump" was around the $700 spot, a new 1 from CAT Classic Parts would cost less and would not be worn out so best of luck on this smart move, the pump by the way can just be bolted up in place with No index markings needed, you will need to check the gear lash though, how did you get on rolling in the bearings? no doubt you cracked open the cap bolts a half turn before changing each bearing set as an item, you also must have made sure you fitted the correct bearings in the top section of the block, that is the ones with the holes in, just as a matter of interest what torque setting did you use on the main and b/end bolts, this is just in case your Pal that talks crap told you the wrong setting detail.
tctractors

 

[kshansen]

I did not find the bolt head. Nothing was laying on the bottom of the pan. You make a good point. I don't see how though, the bolt head would have to be thrust upwards, I guess stranger things have happened!

I would be very concerned about not finding the head of the bolt, it has to be somewhere and probably not somewhere safe!

Several years back one of the guys at the shop was changing the injectors in a Cummins 855 and dropper the nut off the injector rocker adjuster. He figured it went to the bottom of the pan and would just stay there with no problems. Well after the engine ran for a couple hours someone noticed an oil leak. Turns out when we looked at the engine there was a 6 inch round hole in the side of the block! Apparently the spinning of the crankshaft picked up the nut and it got caught between one of the rods and the side of the block. A good spare Michigan 275 was now out of commission!

There are way too many places for that bolt head to cause major catastrophic damage! Unless you are willing to risk a major failure I would not even turn that motor over by anything more that a wrench by hand! Roll the dice if you feel lucky. Right now you might get lucky and only need some new bearings and gasket along with the labor to remove and clean everything.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Thanks tc
6"of snow here inow Mn.I am freezing my buns off
.Will have to wait for warmer weather.Haven't ordered the bearings yet. Thanks for the tip on putting them in. I have done it before on tractors and I have service manual, should have all the specs. The oil pump that I found is used, maybe a mistake, but what are the chances lightning will strike again in the same place? ? Maybe in my case, pretty good chance. Thanks for the advice!
.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

I saw some scoring on the bottom of cylinder no.1.Is that something to be overly concerned about. Looks like it has been there for awhile. Doesn't look like new scoring. I will post pictures of the cylinder when it finally warms up!

 

[CaptainAnalyzer]

Steve, your optimism is truly inspiring.


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[Steve.ahlgren85]

Thanks, I think!!

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Lost oil pressure

Pulled three more of the engine main bearings today and the results were not good. One of the mains had lots of wear, flattened out on the bottom, side pushed out.My question for experienced cat mechanics is ,what would be my best option? Would a long block be a less expensive way to go as compared to taking the engine to Zeigler caterpillar and have them major the engine? I found a lot of aluminium particles that came through the crank oil lubrication holes and into the bearings. Only one of the crank shats had rough spots, grooves. Don't know what my best options are. I respect all of your options !Thanks so much. .