D6c cat loss of oil pressure

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Hobbytime,It was a longblock, by the way. It came with head attached. I transferred from my other engine, the rocker assembly, oil pump, pan,pulleys ,mounting brackets and rocker cover. Just what they told me at caterpillar, the engine wasn't getting enough oil to lubricate pistons and cylinder walls.What he said made sense because when I took off the valve cover to check valve lifters setting, I started and ran the engine and saw oil coming up like a fountain, I shut the engine down but that just didn't seem right..I adjusted the settings a little and put cover back on. Then made the video and took it up to Ziegler caterpillar. That's my story.

 

[Hobbytime]

Hobbytime,It was a longblock, by the way. It came with head attached. I transferred from my other engine, the rocker assembly, oil pump, pan,pulleys ,mounting brackets and rocker cover. Just what they told me at caterpillar, the engine wasn't getting enough oil to lubricate pistons and cylinder walls.What he said made sense because when I took off the valve cover to check valve lifters setting, I started and ran the engine and saw oil coming up like a fountain, I shut the engine down but that just didn't seem right..I adjusted the settings a little and put cover back on. Then made the video and took it up to Ziegler caterpillar. That's my story.

I have read the thread from the beginning, but if you got bad info from the builder and that caused failure or the assembly they sold you was defective..you deserve your money back..if you feel it was your error that caused this failure ..then so be it...its all water under the bridge...now move on and get that baby running and working, and in short time this will all be a bad memory..

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Yah,I agree. I have work to do!

 

[Vetech63]

Geez, what a mess. The piston looks like a detonation failure, usually caused by improper timing.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Caterpillar service tech checked it out. Timing of the engine is within two degrees of being in perfect timing.I was thinking along those lines too. They did a drip test and found that it was not overfueling. That is what they originally thought caused the piston to melt.

 

[old-iron-habit]

..then with all your documentation goto the engine re builder and demand reimbursement for the short block and threaten legal action to cover the rest of the costs that the bad short block caused, such as having to now have a CAT dealer fix the issues..you may or may not get any satisfaction from them, then its your choice to follow through with court ..do yourself a favor and find out the limits in your state for small claims court , in my state its $5000.00 before you need a lawyer, just your filing court papers may convince them to settle before a judgement is placed against them..again its your choice to go that route..

Just looked up small claims limit in Minnesota. It is $15,000.00. I was surprised it is that high. Its legal name is :conciliation court" here"

 

[Welder Dave]

Still curious how much ether was used to get it started?

 

[John Shipp]

Also firing order and which other piston has the 2nd most damage after no6?

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

#4 is scored pretty bad !I know the danger of using too much ether.

 

[crane operator]

I guess I'm going to be the bad guy, and say that I don't think the engine rebuilder is at fault.

Steve installed the rocker that ziegler says is causing the oiling problem

.They then noticed that the rocker assembly is not the correct one for the 3306 caterpillar engine long block I got from Capital Exchange, I used the rocker assembly from engine that went bad on me

The engine rebuilder never saw that piece. All they can go by is arrangement #. I don't see how they could be liable for parts they never saw. We don't know if the old rocker was original to the machine, or from a rebuild with a different style head sometime in the past. A guy who works on those engines all the time would notice it, but I myself wouldn't know the difference.

Steve did the timing and installed the oil pump, and in this thread he recounts his issues with oil pressure, and not being sure he was getting oil pressure after reassembly.

He's the one that used ether on it to get it going.

He's the one driving it around, in the video he posted, with it running so poorly.

He took the dozer out and pushed dirt with it (according to his posts), and tells of injectors being loose, and seemed to be missing/ low power.

I don't think the issue then was the injector- it could be the poor oiling, and from the scoring on the cylinder walls, I doubt he was getting good compression. If he was out pushing dirt for a hour with no oil pressure, or just poor oiling, I could see his scoring, probably the valve chipped is from a piece of a ring getting trapped under it, causing it not to close all the way, letting the piston hit it.

None of that can I really lay at the rebuilder's feet. They installed sleeves and pistons and bearings, to spec in a block, but I don't see how what they rebuilt, caused steve's issues.

It stinks and I feel for you steve, but I don't think that this can really be laid at the rebuilders feet.

 

[kshansen]

I guess I'm going to be the bad guy, and say that I don't think the engine rebuilder is at fault.

Crane operator, you make some very good points, some of the details you mentioned I had forgotten in this long thread.

These kind of problems are why I never liked doing "half" a job, whether it was the first or last half. When there is a problem you always get into the blame question.

Did not even like rebuilding an engine or other component then sending it off to have someone you never knew install it.

 

[d9gdon]

All they have to do is track that rocker assembly back to see if it goes with the arrangement number that was given.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

I have to say that I agree with all of the above. If I am at fault then I couldn't expect someone else to have to pay for it. Not being a trained mechanic, I have made some BIG mistakes. Capital is empathetic to my situation and have offered to cover the costs involved for the parts, which says A LOT about their company. I didn't realize there are different rocker assembly rearrangements.The engine that I ordered was supposed to be the same serial number and arrangement number of my first engine. I guess that if both engines are of the same serial and arrangement number, why wouldn't transferring the rocker assembly from first engine to second work?

 

[Welder Dave]

Perhaps the rebuilder should have noticed a difference if they do a lot of Cat engines? Who knows what someone in the past had done to the engine?

 

[CavinJim]

About that engine failure and melted piston.... I'm one of those folks who sees a puzzle and can't let it rest till I see how it works out. And Steve, you have a puzzle there! But--maybe there's an explanation. Several explanations for the failure have been offered in the discussions above--such as detonation from ether, timing being off, overfueling, and lack of lubrication. The clues: one piston is melted at the top, but looks almost fine at the bottom and other pistons were starting to go that way; a valve is chipped and it looks like there's been a torch working on the head at the chip; it was started with ether; and the Cat dealer says timing is OK. If it was a timing issue, wouldn't it have effected multiple cylinders more evenly? So let's rule out timing for now. If ether was the problem, why would one cylinder be bad, other's good, and some starting to go? I don't buy it, so ignore ether for now, too. If the bottom end was starved for lubrication, why would the bottom half of the melted piston look fine while the top is melted? And just how would that lead to a melted piston? I don't buy the lack of lubrication. That leaves overfueling....

Question for you mechanics--what happens if you pour oil into a diesel cylinder? To my recollection, it burns. I'm thinking that the excessive oiling of the top end led to oil getting into the cylinder(s) and leading to it burning hot--way hot. I've had a couple of gas powered engines that did the same thing--but being gas they just smoked like crazy. But--for that much oil to be getting past the valves implies there might have been an issue with the head to begin with. I'm not a mechanic, so that's for someone else to determine....

 

[Welder Dave]

I think if too much ether was sprayed directly into the intake could be drawn to certain cylinders more than others. Basically it takes the path of least resistance with the intake valve open. Steve doesn't seem to want to mention how much ether he used. Maybe it's a combination of things. I think get what you can from the rebuilder and let Cat repair it.

 

[DMiller]

During engine assembly during overhauls we would dip pistons in oil just prior to placing a ring compressor on, would be dripping as installed with some puddling in the piston cup, would wipe most out but a lot stayed in. Injectors on the old Cummins also dipped in oil just prior to install so O-rings would slip in easier, most of which went to cylinder. Generally either massive overfuel or water/coolant intro during combustion is about the only way pistons will cook down as these did.

 

[kshansen]

Just took another look at the picture of the piston, it's not very clear but there appears to be major amount of material above the top ring missing. I have seen pistons that looked that bad before but they were always from engines with thousands of hours running time. For the life of me I can not see how this piston could get that bad in only an hour or so running.

I would be interested in knowing where that piston came from, who made it?

While I don't suggest using either on a new engine I find it hard to believe that a one time overdose of starting fluid should cause such damage.

If the outfit who sold the long block is willing to foot the bill for parts I would have the Cat dealer do the job. Hopefully they have someone old enough to be familiar with this engine, not that it is that complicated but they don't try to make it seem that way.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Yes,I am going to have Caterpillar do the engine. It will come with a warranty. I am in agreement with cavinjim,on oil overload to the head. Especially if valve guides are worn allowing oil to pass through into combustion chamber. I am not sure what kind of conditions that head was in.

 

[kshansen]

Not saying this has anything to do with the failure but so far this is the only thing I can find in official writting about 3300 series rocker arm assemblies.