D6c cat loss of oil pressure

[51kw]

Any news from big yellow?

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

The service manager called last week, said they got the machine in the shop.The mechanic working on it said it was pushing out a lot of exhaust out the breather tube, said that it probably is a scored cylinder on #6cylinder. They couldn't get it to fire on #6cylinder. Haven't heard back from them yet this week. I will give updates when I find out more.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

I checked out the warranty on the long block 3306 from Capital Remand and Exchange, they will warranty the engine but,I would have to take the engine out, put it on a pallet and send it to off to Denver where they could do a thorough inspection, all at my expense. They have not answered my last email. I will update!!

 

[kshansen]

That warranty sounds like it is worth just the cost of the paper you print that email out on!

They won't take to word of the Cat dealer? One would think that they would at least offer to supply a new cylinder kit and gaskets needed to do the work.

 

[Hobbytime]

I checked out the warranty on the long block 3306 from Capital Remand and Exchange, they will warranty the engine but,I would have to take the engine out, put it on a pallet and send it to off to Denver where they could do a thorough inspection, all at my expense. They have not answered my last email. I will update!!

you should get a written report from CAT on what is wrong and what may have caused the damage to the lining, ill bet the rebuilder blames you in the end..... just for argument sake at this point, what would the cost have been to bring it from the beginning to cat or another reputable mechanic to have the same job done? this way any issues like this would not be your problem, you would have gotten back a good running machine...and what has your cost been so far? time and aggravation and no use of the machine?....sometimes going what we think the cheaper way doesnt work out that way in the end..many have been down this road before...

 

[thepumpguysc]

NOV.13 2016..first post. & still at it..

 

[Tags]

....I am hoping it is not too bad!I used some either on it at first startup.....

That can't be good....

 

[DMiller]

First start should have been on its own, no need of ether.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

So here is what has transpired over the last week. Service tech at Caterpillar pulled the head off my machine and found a piston melted,one other starting to go,two scored cylinders and a valve chipped. They recommend complete cylinder pack,exchange head,core charge, new main and rod bearings and rocker assembly. They originally thought that the engine was overfueling, washing the cylinder walls from the oil that was lubricating them.They did a drip test on the fuel pump, found that it was within two degrees of being in time,which is within tolerance.They then noticed that the rocker assembly is not the correct one for the 3306 caterpillar engine long block I got from Capital Exchange, I used the rocker assembly from engine that went bad on me, which has a 5/16th hole on one end drilled .Oil was shooting up like a fountain, lubricating the top end but starving the cylinders and pistons from getting oil.Capiial said that they will help with new parts, but caterpillar will not warranty the machine if I don't use their parts. Another thing that they found was aluminum pistons. Caterpillar is not recommending using aluminum pistons. Do you guys have a problem with aluminum pistons?
Right now, I just don't know if I want to more money into it than it is worth. There is one coming up for sale, no reserve auction a D5,owner said it is in great condition, undercarriage 95% ,all new rollers,engine totally overhauled 3 years ago, has been sitting in the shed most of the time. Something I have to consider. I am posting some pictures of the engine View attachment 173345 View attachment 173345

 

[d9gdon]

That engine is out of time. That's why the throttle is not acting right and has no power. Do you hear that detonating sound?

I don't know how long it has run but that can cause the pistons to gall and seize or burn up a piston. Of course, that's going to ruin the rings if the cylinders are galled and that could explain the extreme blowby.

The galling can also be caused by lack of lubrication...and the oil pressure on the gauge doesn't look good.

I'm pulling for you buddy. Wish you were closer where I could lend a hand.

Were it me, first thing I would do is to pull the head and have a look. It's definitely damaged inside.

Damn. I am surprised it was in time but the lube thing makes sense.

Don't give up on it now. You know what's wrong with it.

I'd ask Capital what they would allow toward Cat's parts bill and go on with Cat parts and get Capital to pay their allowance and pull the rest outta your pocket so that Cat would warranty the engine work. Looks like you have a good machine to put it back into. Then go buy some lottery tickets.

I've been there man, don't feel like the Lone Ranger.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Thanks for the encouragement d9,I really need support.Thanks again!!

 

[Welder Dave]

I'd be going after this Capital Exchange place for full warrantee on what you paid them. If they don't even know they're using the wrong parts, they can't be very competent. Fix this machine, despite what someone is saying about their machine that's for sale. Nobody trying to sell a machine is going to tell anything wrong with it.

 

[thepumpguysc]

IF CAT fixes it, it has a CAT WARRANTY.. don't get caught up in buying another machine by say-so..& NO WARRANTY..

 

[Tags]

......They then noticed that the rocker assembly is not the correct one for the 3306 caterpillar engine long block I got from Capital Exchange, I used the rocker assembly from engine that went bad on me, which has a 5/16th hole on one end drilled .Oil was shooting up like a fountain, lubricating the top end but starving the cylinders and pistons from getting oil...

I believe this is the problem, the block was fine, right?

 

[kshansen]

A few questions I have, what kind of pistons are they suggesting? I don't recall Cat using anything other than aluminum in anything I worked on in over 40 years. The only engines I recall working on that had cast iron pistons were Detroits!

Not sure about the pistons in the pictures, they look like they are flat tops or is that just the way the shadow makes them look?

Not understanding how lack of lubrication caused a chipped valve. Is that head with the bad valve one that was on the "new" engine or is it the one off your original engine?

How many hours did this engine run to get the parts to look that bad?

While the "leak" from the rocker might not have been a good thing I'm not seeing how it would stop the pistons and cylinders from getting oil. They should be getting oil on them from below not from the rocker arms! Did this engine have oil pressure when started?

As from the start of this "project" I don't think we are getting the full story at many points resulting in all kinds of confusion.

Of all the various Diesel engines I worked on in over 40 years of doing this kind of work the 3306 is the simplest engine to work on. Heck I've had more problems dealing with a 6 hp Tecumseh engine on a snowblower or a little Homelite chain saw!

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

The block is not the problem, at least I don't think so.I will have to get a clarification from Ziegler caterpillar on Monday. Just what service manager told me. He noticed that the engine had aluminum pistons. I will ask him tomorrow if they use something different. The way he explained the problem was that rocker assembly is wrong for that block .He first asked me how Capital matched the engine with my first engine, I told them by serial number and arrangement number. They said rocker assembly isn't the right assembly for this engine block. They said chipped valve came from excessive heat and minimal lubrication. He said oil was flowing like a fountain through the hole in the rocker assembly therefore bottom end was not getting enough oil to lubricate pistons and cylinder walls.The engine only has at most hour and a half.

 

[Welder Dave]

IF CAT fixes it, it has a CAT WARRANTY.. don't get caught up in buying another machine by say-so..& NO WARRANTY..

I should clarify. I think he should go after Capital Exchange to get as much as possible of his money back or new Cat parts because it's clear they don't know what they are doing. I also think there's some aspects of the story being left out like how much ether was used on start up? If it wasn't primed properly and perhaps sprayed directly into the intake might have mostly went to the bad cylinder(s). Wouldn't ether wash down the cylinders too and cause excessive heat? I thought they all used some type of aluminum piston too. Could they maybe mean forged aluminum pistons vs standard aluminum pistons? What brand were the pistons? If it's the same Capital Reman Exchange I saw online, they can supply original Cat parts. If they'll cover parts on warrantee get OEM Cat from them and then the Cat dealer can still warrantee their work.

 

[kshansen]

I find it hard to believe with maybe 1 1/2 hours running the possible lack of oil to the bottom end from a leak in the rocker shaft that one would see this kind of damage. I mean if that was 1 1/2 hours running under full load like on a dyno maybe. But unless someone was crazy enough to put a new engine under load without checking oil pressure and letting it get up to full operating temperature most of that 1 1/2 hours running would be at low to no load.

Going by the information I have seen, and that may be somewhat suspect, this is a load of rubbish! Excessive heat and lack of lubrication chipping a valve in 1 1/2 hours? I've seen many of these engines that were totally abused for hours and weeks that kept running!

I know of one that when first rebuilt it was put on a dyno at the dealer and the oil gauge fitting was not hooked up because mechanic used a port on the other side of engine to install a gauge. It was started and ran long enough to fill the mechanics tool box with oil before being noticed. Once that was noticed he plugged the port and then did a full dyno test on the engine and it past with flying colors and it then went on to be a good running engine for years! So I have serious doubts that a missing plug or whatever in the rockers could "starve" the bottom end for oil to cause a major failure in 1 1/2 hours of easy running.

Just look at the picture of the piston, there is major amount of metal missing above the top ring land yet the lower part of the skirt shows no sign of scuffing. If the problem stated as lack of bottom end lubrication there would be major smearing down low not just up by the oil ring.

I'd love to cut open the oil filter on this one and see all the crap that might be in there.

 

[Hobbytime]

Thanks for the encouragement d9,I really need support.Thanks again!!

shlt happens...look at it this way...its only money...yeah it sucks to spend more but thats life, we all have issues like this no matter if its on a house, car , equipment, livestock and so on..its not even close to the end of the world..you have your health and you get up every morning on your own , able to feed yourself and take a dump and not have some bag connected to you..so in the big picture of life, this is just a speed bump for you..me personally would go with whatever CAT recommends to fix and repair the engine with a warranty, also since the machine is there, spend a few more bucks and let them give the machine a good once through to find and fix any other issues, or at least have them tell you what else is wrong and what really needs to be fixed for overall health of the machine..then with all your documentation goto the engine re builder and demand reimbursement for the short block and threaten legal action to cover the rest of the costs that the bad short block caused, such as having to now have a CAT dealer fix the issues..you may or may not get any satisfaction from them, then its your choice to follow through with court ..do yourself a favor and find out the limits in your state for small claims court , in my state its $5000.00 before you need a lawyer, just your filing court papers may convince them to settle before a judgement is placed against them..again its your choice to go that route..just for argument sake, whats the bill from CAT going to be?..and forget about buying any other machine that someone says runs good, as others stated a seller isnt going to tell you it doesnt run good, and now your further in a hole with another broken machine...good luck with whatever way you choose..dont let this drag you down..look at it as an education and education costs...dont let it cost you with an ulcer or other health problems....

 

[d9gdon]

I still think that the thing was out of time which galled the pistons and melted them which left bits of metal in the cylinder which got caught in the valve and slammed into the head when the piston came up which chipped the valve. Looking at the pics, starting fluid would be suspect. The pistons in the pics look like one that's been severely over fueled for a while now that kshansen points to, so can't figure that out. The video sounded like timing.

These are all guesses on my part. Failure analysis from a non-expert. It gets curiouser and curiouser.